Large Scale Central

White Decals with an HP color laser printer.

Modeling Technical Modeling
#21

Stan,

I am not at all a pro but on the topic of opaque colors. I used to use inkjet long ago with great success on both clear and white decal paper. then I went to print some many years later, and several printers later, only to discover the ink was transparent and not opaque. Bummer, virtually worthless in my opinion as most of what I find I want is on a clear back ground. I was excited when I heard people were having success with laser printers printing opaque. So I bought some of the paper and gave it a try and at least with black they came out nice and dark and crisp and most important opaque. Not the best picture but this is what they came out like.

I haven’t used the color ones I made but I assume they too will be opaque. I think the toner (being toner and not ink) is naturally opaque, but do I know. If the color prints as well as the black and as well as the white we see here then I think we are in business.

#22

Stan Cedarleaf said:

Couple of “concerns” that I have is that while the printers will print white, from what I see, they don’t have the ability to print metallic Gold or Silver and can’t print opaque colors. And have you been able to print color over the white with perfect register so white edges don’t show??? If the customer only wants white, the system sure looks viable… What you paid for the printer and cartridges was great. I know there are a number of modelers out there who can get the system and do they own.

The company I bought the cart from does not offer Gold or Silver. The White cart is installed in place of the black and you just print things in black that you want to be white. This logo was run though once for white and then again for red. The graphic I used was not good quality and I made no attempt to position the paper to help with the register. Obviously it’s off but the red is certainly not opaque when printed over the white. Not sure what happens if I just print color on clear decal film. I’ll try it. It may be awhile as I am a Scot and therefore tend to wait until I have a full sheet before printing.(https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Had a time trying to get it into the deep recesses without micro sol. Actually, I believe the decals on the real thing tend to crack like that! Yeah! I mean’t to do that!

#23

Dan/Devon Thanks for posting the images… The register for double printing seems like it’s going to be a bit of a problem… That’s one thing the ALPS does perfectly… It registers every layer of printing…

While the Laser can do it in 2 passes, the ALPS can take 10 passes or more depending on colors… Sometimes that can shut down the printing mode. Just had a long telephone conversation with Jon up in Canada who does commercial printing and decals as well. It was a great chat about the “future” of the hobby decal business and supply… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Ain’t it fun… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#24

Stan Cedarleaf said:

Dan/Devon Thanks for posting the images… The register for double printing seems like it’s going to be a bit of a problem… That’s one thing the ALPS does perfectly… It registers every layer of printing…

I guess the laser would be “hobby grade” when it comes to multiple layer colors. Although, I’ve seen many commercial pad printed models that are not properly registered.

As I mentioned before, My wife will use the white toner for her product labeling as well. This past weekend she came to me with an second-hand essential oil display to refinish. When she said “Do think you could put our peace logo on it?” I says absolutely!

Ain’t if fun… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

It certainly is!

#25

That looks great, Dan… Perfectly done for that product!!! (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#26

This maybe a stupid question and I think I already have my answer but why are we making multiple passes? The only reason I can see is when printing both black and white in the same decal. Because you have to interchange the white and black toner cartridges. Is this what you are referring too? And if so unless you are specifically needing to print on clear paper I would think a lot of this could be solved by printing on white paper. Yes it has its limitations as it already does when printing “white” with the “omission” method of just not printing that which you wish to be white.

I agree with the statement that this is “hobby” grade. If I need high quality decals I am still calling Stan or someone else. I have yet to produce decals as nice as the ones I get from Stan.

#27

I wonder how long before Ghost or some other company jumps on the metallic band wagon. Again not knowing anything about what I am talking about How hard would it be for them to produce metalic colors if there is a market. We are not talking just models trains, there are cars, RC cars, RC planes. I mean I would think the market would be there especially if the pros like Stan get pushed out because ALPS is harder and harder to get support for.

#28

Devon Sinsley said:

This maybe a stupid question and I think I already have my answer but why are we making multiple passes? The only reason I can see is when printing both black and white in the same decal. Because you have to interchange the white and black toner cartridges. Is this what you are referring too? And if so unless you are specifically needing to print on clear paper I would think a lot of this could be solved by printing on white paper. Yes it has its limitations as it already does when printing “white” with the “omission” method of just not printing that which you wish to be white.

I can’t speak about the Alps machine and while I’ve been making Inkjet decals for years, I’m a novice when it comes to this white toner in the laser. Short answer is the instructions from Ghost white say so. Obviously, since I’m swapping the black cart for white then it I want to print black, I need to send it through again. As far as the other colors, I’m guessing the black cart needs to be installed as maybe some colors need a percentage of black?

I have white paper and yes, I agree that most decals can utilize the “omission” method as long as the outer edge is something that could be cut effectively with a blade. Something like a sign with white letters and a black or colored outline would be a nightmare!

I agree with the statement that this is “hobby” grade. If I need high quality decals I am still calling Stan or someone else. I have yet to produce decals as nice as the ones I get from Stan.

Yes, The ability to print multiple layers of colors with correct register allows Stan to print “finescale” quality. For those of us who follow the 5 foot rule (Most say 10 foot but I’m somewhere inbetween) let me point out that the above evergreen logo is the size of a nickel and from 2 feet away it’s very hard to tell it’s off.

#29

Devon Sinsley said:

I wonder how long before Ghost or some other company jumps on the metallic band wagon. Again not knowing anything about what I am talking about How hard would it be for them to produce metalic colors if there is a market. We are not talking just models trains, there are cars, RC cars, RC planes. I mean I would think the market would be there especially if the pros like Stan get pushed out because ALPS is harder and harder to get support for.

Devon… I had a looooooooong phone conversation with a “professional” printer from Canada the other day and I brought that very topic up to him… He have a large commercial printing company and does custom stuff for his own personal use as well as for the hobby. The metallics are on the horizon but the cartridges for them are $800 plus $ for $30,000 machines. It sure would take a long time to recover costs for a person who does 1 or 2 jobs a day… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Then Dan mentioned the hours spend doing the custom design for logos and special sized runs. I do enjoy the challenge of taking someone’s idea and helping create the results they desire. Helps me keep my trim figure and brain cells from shorting out… Although I do need to change fuses now and then… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

In the years I’ve been doing custom stuff, there are very few “off the shelf” items I’ve been able to sell. 99&44/100% of the jobs done are one of a kind because most folks want that “something special” of their own.

I believe Elephant’s Rocket has reported to have said that they would supply the ALPS until 2030. I’ll be in my 90’s by then… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#30

Devon Sinsley said:

I wonder how long before Ghost or some other company jumps on the metallic band wagon. Again not knowing anything about what I am talking about How hard would it be for them to produce metalic colors if there is a market. We are not talking just models trains, there are cars, RC cars, RC planes. I mean I would think the market would be there especially if the pros like Stan get pushed out because ALPS is harder and harder to get support for.

Devon, Have you checked out the Ghost White site https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/ghost-white-toner-transfer-for-everyone/ ? This can be used on leather, wood, glass, metal etc using heat transfer as well.

Pros like Stan will certainly be needed for the design work. Getting nice sharp graphic decals requires vector graphics that can be scaled with loss of resolution. See https://vectr.com/tutorials/what-are-vector-graphics/

#31

Stan Cedarleaf said:

In the years I’ve been doing custom stuff, there are very few “off the shelf” items I’ve been able to sell. 99&44/100% of the jobs done are one of a kind because most folks want that “something special” of their own.

As I suspected Stan. I had thought about making up sheets of generic freight car data for folks who like to repaint and selling them on eBay.

I believe Elephant’s Rocket has reported to have said that they would supply the ALPS until 2030. I’ll be in my 90’s by then… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

And making decals for 3d printed droids from star wars episode XVII (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#32

Stan,

Would the guy up in Canada be Bill Billinger sp?

#33

I am glad to hear that there will be support for the pros using alps machines. They truly are a better product than anything I have done. So that is good news especially for metallic.

Dan I did look at their site and discovered they ate producing white for other models as you already discovered. I just picked up a used machine with low print numbers (only 275 total pages) for $150 on Ebay. Gets here at the end of the month and takes a different cartridge than the one micro mark is pushing. And that cartridge is about 50 bucks cheaper on amazon.

I not only use these for modeling but in candle making and wood working so I will get my use out of it.

#34

Devon Sinsley said:

Dan I did look at their site and discovered they ate producing white for other models as you already discovered. I just picked up a used machine with low print numbers (only 275 total pages) for $150 on Ebay. Gets here at the end of the month and takes a different cartridge than the one micro mark is pushing. And that cartridge is about 50 bucks cheaper on amazon.

Cool. FYI: I spoke with Micro Mark at the Amherst show and was told they had a heck of a time getting Ghost White to allow them to access to the product and got the impression the solution they sell is the only one Ghost White will give them.

I not only use these for modeling but in candle making and wood working so I will get my use out of it.

Are you planning on or have you used the heat transfer paper? I’m very curious about how well that holds up. The wife is asking about making mugs and/or water bottles for her Yoga students.

#35

Craig

I not sure but the fellow that Stan was takimg to was Big John from the Vancouver club , also are you going to Monroe show on the weekend and Paul too

#36

Craig Townsend said:

Stan,

Would the guy up in Canada be Bill Billinger sp?

Hi Craig… Email me [email protected] (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#37

Wayne,

I’m planning on going Sat. to the Monroe show.

Craig

#38

Craig Townsend said:

Wayne,

I’m planning on going Sat. to the Monroe show.

Craig

If Jon is there, chat with him… He’s a great communicator… Please greet him for me… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

#39

Wayne Jardine said:

Craig

I not sure but the fellow that Stan was takimg to was Big John from the Vancouver club , also are you going to Monroe show on the weekend and Paul too

Hi Wayne… Yer rite… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)Please greet him for me… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

#40

Dan Gilchrist said:

Are you planning on or have you used the heat transfer paper? I’m very curious about how well that holds up. The wife is asking about making mugs and/or water bottles for her Yoga students.

I haven’t sorry I can’t report on it. I have only just used the laser waterslide paper and only once so far. I am in my infancy with the new laser options. I quit making decals until very recently about 20 years ago.