Large Scale Central

Aristocraft U25B Handrails Needed/Imagination Station KOT

Problem Solving
#21

Illustrated below is an example prototype U25B having vertically mounted stanchions for its railings like the Aristo replica. (Later “U boats” utilized side mounted stanchions similar to competitive EMD locos.)

Ken, to answer your question, yes it is possible to bend USA stanchion bottom ends straight and add a full length wire, but with risk of breaking off the bottoms - if not when forming but vulnerable when handling. The end bulkiness may be another issue to contend with when trying to fit within the U25B’s cat walk holes.

With the U25B having missing railings, compromise possibilities are presented in the illustration below.

If Gilbert has available RS3 plastic stanchions, they could be used with bendable electrical buss wire as described. In so doing, the cat walk detail may need to be filed flush and mounting hole size may be different.

If using USAT SD40-2 (or similar loco) taller stanchions, they can be shortened at its base and reformed / trimmed for vertical fitment without the issue of rebending (& possibly breaking) its right angle side mount tab.

-Ted

#22

Good information Ted. Like I say I’ve never done this and if I can figure out how to post photos from my smartphone, I’ll do it. Did not know about side mounting on prototypes. That would have made it much easier.

I have to look but I might have an SD70 hand rail. (one side) I just remembered that. I’ll do some comparisons.

Actually I forgot to mention at the locomotive isn’t even here yet. It’ll be here in a few days, so I thought I would try to get a jump on how to fix the problem early.

Thanks Ted!

Ken

#23

Just to be clear, vertical stanchion mounting on the U25B is prototypical as seen in picture. The later “U boats” and typical EMD units have side mount stanchions.

-Ted

#24

What I have done in a the past was as described to replicate the stanchions from brass and brass rod I bought from Michaels. For stanchions that I have broken the mounting tabs off of, I used a slightly smaller gauge wire and soldered a small section into the u channel the cut to length. It works with the side mount style as well.

#25

Ted Doskaris said:

Just to be clear, vertical stanchion mounting on the U25B is prototypical as seen in picture. The later “U boats” and typical EMD units have side mount stanchions.

-Ted

Ted,

I totally respect and understand your write ups/documentation however I thought Ken at Imagination Station was just looking for handrails that that look ok from 10’ rule and will be somewhat durable while involving and educating the kids, hence my suggestion of using USA’s railings.

Ken …BTW …I totally respect and (think) I understand what you are doing which is AWESOME!

#26

I tried really gently bending the USA handrail mounting but like Ted said earlier the bottom broke off. This was simply a test anyway, so no worries on that.

John’s idea is a good one. I tried to solder a piece of rod to the u section on the bottom of that USA stantion and it was fairly simple, so if I can get the stanchions by themselves from USA Trains, then maybe I could put a set together?

Tried posting a picture of this locomotive and even dropped the size of the photo and it still wouldn’t work. It keeps saying error??

Never seem to get that right. Maybe someday.

#27

Duplicate post.

#28

" Rooster " said:

Ted Doskaris said:

Just to be clear, vertical stanchion mounting on the U25B is prototypical as seen in picture. The later “U boats” and typical EMD units have side mount stanchions.

-Ted

Ted,

I totally respect and understand your write ups/documentation however I thought Ken at Imagination Station was just looking for handrails that that look ok from 10’ rule and will be somewhat durable while involving and educating the kids, hence my suggestion of using USA’s railings.

Ken …BTW …I totally respect and (think) I understand what you are doing which is AWESOME!

Thank you Rooster and understood. The option described to use RS3 plastic stanchions (if Gilbert has them) would satisfy the “10 foot rule”.

-Ted

#29

Rooster, Ted,

We just want to get something that looks nice for the public/kids to see because they’ll be running it most of the time anyway. I have to say that this U25B has a very impressive Amtrak paint scheme and is one of the nicer looking U25’s I’ve seen. I can’t believe somebody lost the handrails because this locomotive has never even been on the track. There are absolutely no scratches or wheel marks. The paint is flawless and it runs like brand new. I can understand how people lose things like that? I was hoping I would find a set on EBay and I spoke to several sellers that were selling parts for this locomotive but many of them that did have the handrails for sale at one time said, they were snapped up almost immediately at the beginning of the listing time.

Don’t know how many times they come on EBay but maybe we’ll get lucky and find some eventually but if not then we’ll have to make them using USA stanchions and brass rod? Kinda like John & Rooster suggested. They seem to be much more durable with that piece of brass rod soldered at the bottom. Most of you have probably seen the Amtrak paint scheme but I’ll try to find a way to get a photo on this post, even if I’ve got to provide a link through a secondary site.

Ken

#30

The RS-3 stanchions have a big square base, that goes into a recessed square hole in the RS-3:

Not sure how you would mount these, perhaps cut the large square base away?

By the way, if you heated the USAT ones to red hot and then let cool (just the end) I would bet they would bend without breaking, of course a repaint would be needed, all of a few seconds.

Greg

#31

Greg, I would not cut the base away on the RS3 plastic stanchions. Instead, file off the U25B catwalk detail flush, and then enlarge the hole, if need be, to accept the square / rectangular peg at the bottom of the stanchion.

But thinking a bit more of what Rooster suggested, I suppose holes could be drilled in the sides of the U25B sill to accept the USA Trains side / end rail stanchion right angle prongs. That way they don’t need to be bent straight. Doing this, I suppose spacing between the stanchions could be left as is with the USAT railings, too - ignoring the U25B spacing. The problem may be figuring out how to deal with stepping up over the boxes near the rear of the loco.

As to bending the USAT railing wire, if done carefully with 45 degree angle, it should work to transition over the boxes. Using longer “donor” SD70 or SD40-2 railings would seem to allow for enough excess to optimize position of the stanchions in optimal places to be more pleasing to the eye.

Just a thought,

-Ted

#32

Hopefully one of these mage links will work.

https://postimg.cc/cgFv9d90

https://postimg.cc/cgFv9d90

20190909-205927

#33

Easy now Rooster…

#34

Nice pictures Ken except not one shows the existing holes for the stanchions… how about one of those?

Of course the point is probably moot, since Ted’s picture is fine. I’d be interested in the hole size.

Ted, those bases on the RS-3 stanchions are ugly huge if they are sitting on top of the walkway I think… of course the stanchions are huge in of themselves.

Greg

#35

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Easy now Rooster…

Not my cup of tea Sean but a nice paint job either way !

#36

Honestly in the VERY brief research I did on the GE 25 Uboat. I personally see no reason why holes cannot be drilled on on the sides allowing the use of the USA railings. That way you do not have to bend those USA railing tedious tabs that will break at the bottom of the stanchions.

I find this thread quite humorous. ALL THOSE that have bitched about Aristo Craft products over the years saying they are NOT prototypicaly correct nor are they to scale are now trying to fix an un-prototypical locomotive with Aristo parts…LMAO !

BTW …Amtrak never owned a U25 that I’m aware of …however I challenge the experts to prove me wrong ?

Nice looking loco Ken and I’m sure the kids will enjoy. I have added my advice so carry on gentlemen.

This post has been edited by : ROOSTER

#37

Thank you Rooster,

As to prototypes from what research I had done, early production U28Bs resembled U25Bs in appearance and used their car bodies. Later U28Bs had split windshields and side mounted stanchions like the New Haven picture above. Some railroads, like the Rock Island, replaced the single large windshield when damaged in their U25Bs with the split windshield for cost reasons, but vertical mounted stanchions remained.

Example New Haven U25B with typical single piece windshield and vertically mounted stanchions:

Like Rooster stated, I did not find Amtrak U25Bs, and I did not find they had U28Bs, either.

That said, Ken’s U25B really looks nice no matter what railing types would be installed or even if none are installed at all. It still would look great pulling several Amtrak passenger cars irrespective of the"10 foot rule".

-Ted

#38

Nice photos guys! Great example of both handrail mountings. I ordered USA handrails today because they said that even if the stantion mounting tab breaks, you can easily solder a piece of rod to these and according to them, you can just bend the top railing catch or holder just a half millimeter outward to free up the stantion from the railing. This allows for adjustment in spacing. Also, they told me that the actual handrails can be significantly bent without breaking, as long as you don’t overdo it by bending it to many times. I hope I can handle this project because I can’t seem to find actual handrails anywhere. I did put a post on the Arstocraft Forum just in case someone may have a set or parts engine aying around. I kinda knew, like Rooster said, that Amtrak never had U25B’s but I don’t think most of the public is going to be aware of that and I’m sure the kids that run it won’t care whether it’s prototypical or not.

We would just like to get it looking as good as possible, even if that means side mounting the handrails, which I am considering, due to Roosters photo and info.

Thanks! Ken

#39

Hey guys,

I found this item on eBay from Trainz.com for $18.99 and $10 shipping, or (thereabouts) and snapped it up right away hoping it was the right right set for the U25B. Maybe some of you can look closely at these photos and tell me if you think this is the right hand rail system for the U25B, since the listing didn’t give any idea what locomotive it was for. I’ve also provided a link, which I hope works and the eBay item number in case my photos don’t work again. Here is the photos, hopefully.

Couldn’t contact them immediately for information and didn’t want to loose them, if they are correct. If they are correct, just wondering if anyone knows what color the handrails need to be painted on that Amtrak engine? I can’t find a photo. I’m guessing here but, maybe black or silver??

Here is the link,

392345936909 Ebay Item #
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acme-3000X-121-Green-Metal-Side-amp-End-Handrails-/392345936909?txnId=935988222026#vi__app-cvip-panel

You guys think these will work?

#40

Ken, the pictures you show of the railings do seem to resemble some used on the Aristo U25B, except for the end railings that appear to have right angle prongs at the base of the stanchions.

As to what color the railings are, it seems they are white (and or both) silver for the Aristo Amtrak U25B:

A prototype Amtrak GP40PH that has railings seems to have silver railings, too

To see most Amtrak locos, clink on link below.
https://www.hebners.net/Amtrak/index.html

-Ted