Large Scale Central

Aristo Consolidation review

Reviews
#41

Sadly, a continual parade of large scale mishaps.

Is there any credibility for this Aristo loco’s foibles coming from absolute factory manufacturing discression, such as materials, dies, assembly, for which Lewis has little or no control? I have heard stories of Lee Riley’s efforts sporatically thwarted in products that were poorly assembled by factory decisions in which he was not privy.

Otherwise, are there just limited Chinese manufacturing plants from which to choose? Is it a you-take-what-you-get situation? What else can explain the continual frustration with large scale product foibles not seen in the Model Railroader reviews of HO, N, and O products?? Search the brand names in HO, N, and O to find any such consistent problems of product foibles.
Wendell

#42
Paul Norton said:
Many of us here fled MLS because of the negative and often aggressive nature of the posts there. We do not want to see it here.
Yup.

tac, ig & The Manitou Playbill Band boys

#43

Tac and Paul,
I can certainly understand negative reporting not attracting readers. The question is what constitutes accuracy and objectivity vs. Now-I-Got-you motives? My question was the last one above asking if the LS manufacturing industry itself is unfortunately inherently flawed. Aristo-Craft is a distribution mechanism for products that are made for them. So what control does Aristo actually have in the act of final production? Is there a different role for Aristo compared to B’mann, USA, or MTH? Objective reporting is our standard here at LSC, so the answer to that question does merit hearing.

#44

Wendell,
accuracy and objectivity need to take into consideration the person actually making the point or criticism. The reference to the other site brings to bear members who rarely post here and yet are prolific on the other site (and also on that particular manufacturer’s site as well). I call it the "Emperor’s new clothes’ syndrone. The old guard will staunchly defend their chosen marque and criticise and intimidate those who have the audacity to actually have a problem with that manufacturer’s product. We all know those inclined to up the ante when a fight breaks out and generally take this into account.

        Recently, on a German forum,  that since I did not take the opportunity to return an item for warranty repair (at considerable personal cost to me),  I was told by the factory site forum administrator that I should not report the defect on the site.  Basically,  silencing me in my factual reporting of a faulty product.  Devotees of that product tongue lashed me on another site,  siding with the forum administrator and accusing me of a 'sour grapes' attitude and trying to get something for nothing.  I am the one hundreds of dollars out of pocket and was hoping that others may not find themselves in a similar situation.

        Human nature dictates that a less than positive critique is nothing but criticism of a product and not to be tolerated.  Maybe when the shoe is on the other foot and that person is out of pocket,  then they may have a different attitude.
#45

I believe that this conflict will stay, there are 2 seemingly diametrically opposed “camps”, one that wants to report (usually factually and unemotionally) problems encountered, with a view to resolving them.

Another camp has repeatedly espoused that NO negative comments should ever be made in public. Send to the manufacturer.

I tried the latter path early on when beat over the head by other forum members and the owner of the company. Unfortunately, it was a head in the sand attitude, with public announcements that the problem did not exist. Not until the problem was revealed on the forum, did it become clear that many people had experienced the same problem.

I’m sure it’s painful to get bad news on your product, I know that Scott Polk personally blames me for bad Consolidation sales. But, we are the consumers and have the right to free speech, and need to protect our hard earned $$.

I try to keep my statements accurate and objective, although it is sometimes hard to keep unemotional when you are attacked as a “troll” publicly by the company owner, or called names by the moderators of a forum.

But we are all only human, and after all it’s only a hobby. In my perspective, the constructive criticism has yielded many improvements of problems that were “unacknowledged” for many years.

(not sure the change to battery power was the right answer to the power pickup problems in certain locos though ha ha!)

Regards, Greg

#46

Any news on the replacement wheels ? Its been over a year and I still cant get my Aristocraft Connie loco to work well.
Very sad indeed.
It might be time to sell it and buy another Great USATs loco. Cant have to many GG-1s :slight_smile:
Nick

#47

From Greg’s posting above, his two statements are absolutely not contradictory:

“I’m sure it’s painful to get bad news on your product, …”
“I try to keep my statements accurate and objective,…”

Granted, it is a manufacturer’s liability to know the consumer, not their own production staff, has discovered and made public product disabilities. Manufacturers and distributors who cry foul at “negative” reporting are choosing that over an apology and prompt reliable consumer remedy. LGB San Diego’s prompt replacement and repair policy for their products is still legendary consumer memory. Much of it was at no consumer cost. LGB America followed the Nordstrom’s quality model and secured for years the highest ranked brand name in the hobby. Anyone still running a 14 year-old LGB mogul passes that history on.

MEANWHILE…
I find Greg’s and Tim’s analysis and helpful remedies upfront and worthy of reading. He and Tim Brien do make an important point, while their contributions are helpful, those same observations may also be “negative” to an industry that historically has had quality control foibles. Without their reviews, along with other insightful contributors giving us a “Consumer Reports” emphasis on this site, we are at times “beta” testing products on our own. That’s the point: What the manufacturers dop not throughly pre-sale test, we do. We then report our findings. How those findings are reported is the point, not that they are reported. Fairness, objectivity, and accuracy remain the guidelines. When they are not, criticism is absolutely warranted to retain credibility.
Wendell

#48

Wendell, remember whenTOC did this with Bachmann, pointing out where things needed tweeking or reworking to cover the errors of the assembly lines in the PRC, until some folks decided they didnt like what TOC was saying, no matter even if it was about valid QC issues, and that became a more or less public dispute? How much damage did Bmann do to themselves by handling it that way? lots from my perspective. Now I dodn’t buy anything until I’ve had a chance to see some reliable folk give their 2-cents about it.

The last few years marketing in large scale has been akin to marketing a big budget special effects laden Hollywood blockbuster, lots of hyped words, lots of shiny advert pics, lots of hubbub online about all the new bells and whistles, all geared to get you into the theater that first weekend to plunk your money down and sit their in anticipation waiting for the lights to go down…only to realize shortly thereafter, that the movie is an enormous Turkey.

#49

I remember that very reliable Blogspot, One to Twenth Point Me. He always had good information.

Botchman didn’t like it, so they put him out of business.

One day he was on the net, the nexd day, gone with no explanation.

#50
Victor Smith said:
Wendell, remember whenTOC did this with Bachmann, pointing out where things needed tweeking or reworking to cover the errors of the assembly lines in the PRC, until some folks decided they didnt like what TOC was saying, no matter even if it was about valid QC issues, and that became a more or less public dispute? ............
Precisely, call a POS a POS and all kinds of noses will be out of joint. From the mfg to the mags who depend on the mfgs advertising dollar to the fan club who don't think there is anything wrong.

And best of all people keep on buying, put up with the substandard quality and sometimes even believe what the mfg offers as a flimsy excuse. Mr. Barnum had it spot on! Plenty of suckers born every minute!

#51
Steve Featherkile said:
I remember that very reliable Blogspot, [url=http://www.120pointme.blogspot.com]One to Twenth Point Me[/url]. He always had good information.

Botchman didn’t like it, so they put him out of business.


Youve said this twice, Steve. What do you base this on?

#52

Just what I’ve read here, and elsewhere, Bob. Do you have different, credible evidence? You are in the loop, not I.

#53

Nope, I have nothing at all besides wild speculation from the usual gang. Since he was posting less and less for almost nine months before he shut the site, I assume that he just closed it down. Your “Botchman didn’t like it, so they put him out of business.” sounded like you had some credible evidence.

#54
Nicholas Savatgy said:
Any news on the replacement wheels ? Its been over a year and I still cant get my Aristocraft Connie loco to work well. Very sad indeed. It might be time to sell it and buy another Great USATs loco. Cant have to many GG-1s :) Nick
You surely can if you model Great Northern, SP&S, Northern and Southern Pacific and the Old Mill Lumber Co. Inc of Oregon.

tac, ig & The Cascade Summit Boys

#55

As for reliable running, well, the LGB Mogul isn’t the only one they made. I lined up in the snow in Berlin back at Christmas 1982 to collect my green SEG Mallet - 2085D. I was running it yesterday while I was futzing around in the backyard. One new motor and a couple of sets of the old-style spring-loaded brushes is all that’s been needed in almost 29 years of sheer pleasure.

tac, ig & The Kaiserdamm Hobbystore Boys

#56
tac said:
Nicholas Savatgy said:
Any news on the replacement wheels ? Its been over a year and I still cant get my Aristocraft Connie loco to work well. Very sad indeed. It might be time to sell it and buy another Great USATs loco. Cant have to many GG-1s :) Nick
You surely can if you model Great Northern, SP&S, Northern and Southern Pacific and the Old Mill Lumber Co. Inc of Oregon.

tac, ig & The Cascade Summit Boys


Yeah, we don’t need no stinking GG-1’s :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

When I was a kid, looking at the annual Lionel catalog, I wondered just what that GG-1 thing was. I finally decided that it was Lionel’s fantasy engine. The GN, NP, SP&S and the Burlington didn’t use electrics, and the Little Joes of the MILW looked nothing like a GG-1. My thought was that if Lionel wanted to make a model of an electric locomotive, they should have used a Little Joe.

Yes, I know now that the GN used electrics on Steven’s Pass, but not after 1956. I was 8 when the electrification of Steven’s Pass was shut down, and my world did not extend much beyond my neighborhood, my school and Appleyard. I really don’t remember seeing any of GN’s electrics. Mostly diseasals, with a few Mikes coming over from Spokane.

Edit: my finger is finally out of the splint, and I am having to relearn how to type. The finger ain’t what it usta-was, and I have to train my brain to accept what it is, now.

#57
Bob McCown said:
Nope, I have nothing at all besides wild speculation from the usual gang. Since he was posting less and less for almost nine months before he shut the site, I assume that he just closed it down. Your "Botchman didn't like it, so they put him out of business." sounded like you had some credible evidence.
Nope, just the usual chattering class, although one on another site always seemed to have the correct gouge. Given "B"s treatment of TOC, I would not be surprised, though.
#58

Bachmann was really trying to find the owner of 1 to 20 point me… and accused TOC several times… They were asking everyone if they knew who he was.

Greg

#59
Greg Elmassian said:
Bachmann was really trying to find the owner of 1 to 20 point me... and accused TOC several times... They were asking everyone if they knew who he was.

Greg


That’s interesting. If it was TOC, I hardly believe they would have had any success forcing him to shut down. Any such attempt would probably result in twice the effort to keep it going :wink:
If Bachmann had anything to do with the site closing, it would probably have been in the way of a buyout, not a “force” out.
Many big companies work that way. The easiest way to get rid of a pain, is to throw some money it’s way :slight_smile:
Ralph

#60

No problems to report with my connie. Runs like a champ, no problem with derailments on my less than perfect trackwork at all.