Hi Guys

Through mail order, I bought a brand new C-16 DRGW coal loco. This '“new” loco had been repaired by Aristo Craft prior to arriving at my mail order dealer. The pilot truck was replaced with that of the previous C-16 design, plastic side rod version, such that the front drivers were then lifted off the track! The cab glass was also cracked. As per Lewis Polk’s instructions, I mailed the loco at my cost back to the dealer who provided me with a store credit refund. I contacted Lewis for compensation of my mail order costs as I had wrongly been shipped a repaired loco instead of a new product.

Lewis’s response is that the dealer damaged my loco!

Ya right. I have been purchasing from this dealer for a long time. This dealer mainly sells high end locos and he would not be in business very long if he ran around damaging locos prior to shipping them to repeat clients. No more Aristo purchases for me. I will never get over Lewis’s attitude of blaming Aristo Craft’s error on others to avoid compensating me. Inexcusable behaviour.

Norman

Lousy PR from Aristo, eh?
It should have been replaced without question.

You got Polkied!! LOL Regal

Norman-
You indicated, per Lewis Polk’s instructions, you mailed the loco back to the dealer. Did Lewis indicate at this time that the dealer was the cause of the defective loco? Or was the reason given only when you asked for monetary compensation? Interesting sequence of events.
Wendell

Hi Wendell:

First, I asked for a replacement loco. Lewis explained that all of the C-16 inventory had since been shipped out of the Jersey warehouse and was now at a different dealer for final clearance.

Lewis offered to repair the loco. But I did not want a repaired loco. Jersey does not have the parts for the new C-16 anyway. I wanted a new product loco. The cab window was cracked and to replace the cab window would require the disassembly of the loco which would scratch paint finishes and bend piping.

So Lewis told me to return the loco to the dealer, which I did at my expense, in order to get a refund on the loco from the dealer. Lewis told me that he would take care of this later as he had to go out of town.

Lewis claimed that the loco was damaged by the dealer from the outset. This is not credible given the dealer from which I had bought the loco from.

I received a refund from the dealer for which I purchased other product from the dealer. I am out the bi-directional shipping exceeding 100.00 plus many phones calls to both the dealer and Lewis of at least 20.00 plus the import HST so there is a total exceeding 120.00 to buy thin air and be toyed with. I am not going to try to get a HST refund from Revenue Canada. Way too much paperwork and time required. So the grand total now exceeds 150.00 to buy thin air and to be abused.

The point is that Aristo Craft shipped a visibly damaged product as new product.

To then blame the damage to the loco as being a deliberate act by the dealer is not acceptable.

Lewis now claims that a replacement loco was sent to the dealer. I spoke with the dealer yesterday. The dealer told me that he has not received a replacement loco. How could the dealer have received a replacement loco after Lewis had correctly told me that all of the C16 locos had been shipped out for final clearance?

The bottom line is I don’t need this frustration, I don’t need to be toyed with and my many years of friendship with Lewis are over.

The dealer, who deals mainly in high end brass models, is also really majorly pissed off at Lewis.

You simply cannot abuse your dealers and customers in this manner.

Norman

Norman,
Thanks for the sequence – and reporting the conclusion to date.
The entire large scale hobby suffers from such events – and how many go unreported. Kudos for reporting!
As an aside, I have wondered if Lewis Polk actually reads these LSC postings specific to Aristo-Craft. If so, the problem of his credibility becomes more pronounced. One ethics-reinforcing remedy is obvious: Send you a new loco and offer on this site an apology with a credible explanation.

Meanwhile, implicit in your accounting is a warning of caution in ordering any Aristo products by requesting the dealer verify the condition of the product before shipment – a second witness needed? cell phone photo? a civil attorney? . This also means nixing a drop shipment whereby you pay the dealer and the mfg. ships directly to you.

Please let us know if there is a different ending,

Thanks again,
Wendell

Hi Wendell:

Yes, Lewis and his staff monitor both this forum and the other forum.
All of the train mfgs do. Both of these forums provide a free customer feedback to the mfgs.
Other industries need to hire expensive canvassing research firms to obtain similar information.
Note that Scott responded to Greg’s report of the Aristo Consolidation driver wheel flange design error.
Scott convinced Lewis to respond to the Aristo Consolidation driver wheel flange design error defect which is an expensive product recall for Aristo.

Lewis claimed that Greg was the only instance of the Aristo Consolidation driver wheel flange rubbing against the rails.
Lewis similarly claimed that my C-16 was the only damaged C-16 and therefore the dealer switched the pilot truck!
Do you see a pattern here?

The only other C-16 locos this dealer has in stock are that of the old Delton C-16 locos for which the pilot truck of the latest metal side rod C-16 does not fit.The dealer did not damage my C-16 loco. The Aristo Craft repair department damaged my C-16 loco.

Bachmann Trains gets excellent information from postings on its website.
That is why the K-27 was finally built despite Lee Riley’s concerns as to the K-27 large product size.
That is also why the Vulcan loco was not built as the Bachmann website rec’d a record number of complaints when the Vulcan loco product was announced.
The negative Vulcan locomotive postings to the Bachmann website killed that product.

As to how does Bachmann Trains deal with its customers:

I received a mildly rude email from the parts dept years ago. I return emailed the message to Lee Riley.
The next day I received a personal phone call from Bachmann President Bud Reece who was very upset over the incident and I was told that Lee Riley would contact me the next day.
Bud Reece explained that the model train hobbyist is the reason Bachmann Trains exists and that without our support there would be no Bachmann Trains.
The following day Lee Riley called me and insisted that Bachmann Industries mail me a free locomotive. I told him that was not necessary but Lee Riley insisted. So I received a tenth anniversary loco of my choice of roadname. All this for a mildly rude email.
Whenever I call Lee Riley his extremely polite personal assistant, Barb, answers the telephone. A very nice lady.

Compare Bachmann’s treatment of myself to that by Aristo Craft.

Norman

It took me three e-mails, three phone calls and
finally three postings on the Bachmann forum to
get the replacement counter weights for my K-27.
Very frustrating.
That was back a couple years ago when Bachmann and I went to war.

I bought a CC switcher from a So.Nevada dealer.It ran pretty well that Christmas,then developed problems.I called AC and they had me send it in. It came back with a note that my track was dirty! It wasn’t.Called and returned a second time.It was returned?No note. Same problems.Called again and was sent a UPS call tag I never used. I determined it was a defective motor block so ordered a replacement. Was assured at no cost to me. Was charged full suggested retail
plus shipping.
Leaning more and more toward USA motors.

Well, at least you all have the option of returning a defective product, irrespective of the attention the manufacturer gives to it. Out here in the antipodes, one does not have that option. Depending on the carrier used, shipping a typical locomotive would cost anywhere from $120 up to around $450 and that is just one way shipping. If I receive a defective loco it is placed in the spare parts bin. It is simply not worth the cost of shipping to return for warranty. Of cause, if purchased locally then legislation requires the dealer to either repair or replace. Try telling that to them. They say that the item has to be returned to the manufacturer (irrespective of the requirements of the law).

I recently had a Piko 5 amp DCC central station go tits up. It had only been tested several times and at no point was it even connected to my railroad. I emailed the dealer in the States and he said to return it to him. One way shipping to him would be around $60. I decided to fore go the offer as no doubt the dealer would blame me for the fault and purchased a 10 amp wireless NCE system for around $700 including postage from another dealer (DCC Train in Cincinatti). A couple of days ago, having nothing to lose, I dismantled the Piko central station and found that a large heatsink had not been properly fitted at the factory. It had moved on the circuit board and most likely was creating a short circuit. Unit was reassembled and now works perfectly. In hindsight, I should have simply investigated the defective unit earlier but having absolutely no knowledge of digital circuit boards I just considered the unit as junk.

Also, there is no point getting into a slanging match with a particular manufacturer as you will not win the war. I simply refuse to deal with that manufacturer. They accept that their product is perfect and engineered to the highest level. If you have a fault then YOU caused the fault. The famous race car driver and manufacturer, Ettore Bugatti, when confronted with an irate, dissatisfied customer, commented, “So you are the person giving my car so much trouble.” Same analogy applies to aforementioned manufacturer.

Tim-
Sharp analysis – clearly stated is the basis for the “no-win” situation from shipping costs outside the mfg.'s home ground. My estimate is the U.S. mfgs. are very aware of the consumer cost in trying to attain an honest remedy. Hopefully, you have had at least one of the “big 4” handle a complaint honestly independent of the cost to do so.
Wendell

Hi Tim:

I realise that there is no point in getting into a slanging match. Greg has reported that the consumers of the latest Aristo Consolidation will most likely not receive replacement wheels as Lewis finds the cost prohibitive. Consumers should simply wait for the next production run of the Aristo Consolidation if the binding flange mfg error is of concern to them.

Norman

Norman Bourgault said:
Hi Tim:

I realise that there is no point in getting into a slanging match. Greg has reported that the consumers of the latest Aristo Consolidation will most likely not receive replacement wheels as Lewis finds the cost prohibitive. Consumers should simply wait for the next production run of the Aristo Consolidation if the binding flange mfg error is of concern to them.

Norman

Plus it would mean they are admitting they stuffed up. Again!!!

Actually Lewis was referring to Paul Burch as the only person complaining about the wheels. Adding me makes 2 for absolutely sure.

On another forum (Yahoo group) Lewis now claims there is nothing wrong with the loco and it was using non-Aristo track.

So, don’t look for improvements soon.

Greg

Norman Bourgault said:
I am not going to try to get a HST refund from Revenue Canada. Way too much paperwork and time required.

I've gone thru it, Norman, and it's not that bad if you can give the bureaucrat a solid case, paperwork wise.

I guess it took me ten minutes to copy my docs, 20 minutes to write my story, 5 to fill out the form, put the thing in an envelope and add it to the outgoing post.

There was a period of two-three months, then a cheque in the mail. Whether going thru this is worth it money-wise is a call you have to make, but it sure is satisfying to pry your own money back from the thieving scoundrels who run this place.

And maybe we do our countrymen a small favour, in a crazy kind of way, NOT to let them get away Scot-free with their foul practices.