Large Scale Central

Some ramblings on 2015 build challenge

The MIK - Annual Build Challenge
#21

As a participant I voted, I just excluded myself from anything. I think it was important for ALL to participate and vote.

I thought the voting was straight foward but the add on prizes got a little confused about it being up to the donors to award but some thought that was also a vote.

Next time I would keep the top 3 and Mik’s prize unchanged, but the add ons should be either clearly up to the donors or we could decide to include that in the vote, I would keep it as is.

I am troubled that with all the attention the challenge had that there was such a dismal voting turnout. I don’t know how to change that. Maybe going to a strictly secret ballot would attract more voting.

#22

I participated as a ‘challenge rookie’, although not necessarily a rookie modeler. Building under the conditions of the challenge are different from just building, and as such changes the atmosphere even for experienced modelers. As one with a relatively small ‘junk box’, this added to the challenge. Overall I had a great time participating in the challenge and testing my abilities. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the build threads of the other challenge participants. The imagination and creativity of the members of this forum are boundless as displayed by the entries. I participated and I voted. I voted with an open mind and an objective eye.

Were the categories too numerous? Possibly… Could they have possibly been more clearly defined in both voting and prizes? Maybe… I think the categories, prizes and judging were plenty fair, especially considering this was a ‘fun challenge’ to chase away the ‘after the holiday blues’. I don’t have any clear answers to do we keep the current format or change it. Maybe after the Thanksgiving holiday this year we can ‘kick the tires’ and see how we all feel after a year of other contemplations.

As far as this year’s builds, every participant was a winner. They participated! The participation is what makes this fun. I look forward to next years build with it’s surprise topic. The spirit of Mik was displayed by all the participants, whether they completed their build or not. And for those who did not, PLEASE keep building, keep posting and let us see the final product.

#23

David Maynard said:

Last year I built my gas station, assuming that I would not win. I ended up posting 2 separate threads on how I made the roof and windows for my building. I also won something. I was happy to play along at home, and I got a build off of my “someday” build list. So I won just by getting off my behind and doing something. I also hope that I gave back something with my explanations of how I made the windows and roof.

This year I built my bobber, also something on my “someday” build list. I also won something, even though I thought I didn’t stand a chance.

So next year, join in and build something. You just might win, and even if you do not win, you will get a project done. Thats a win in my book. Plus you have the fun of joining in the group project. Its always more fun playing along with others then going and working alone.

I have a couple of thought if you’ll hear me out.

Dave mentions that several people didn’t join the build because they didn’t think they were good enough modellers and/or wouldn’t win anything. To me this is sad and misses the point badly. Did I secretly want to win first prize? Hell yes! Did I secretly hope to create a model which would awe everyone into worship of my modelling skills? Hell yes, you bet! Did I really believe either would happen? Of course not.

I quote Maynard here because I think he and I and many others are on the same page about this. There are many reasons to join the challenge, all of which make winning a prize or first place completely secondary. 1. I have a build I wouldn’t have otherwise thought of. 2. I achieved my goal of creating something kids would like, fellow modellers would like, and, due to the whimsical nature of the build, something which will no doubt annoy and offend model railroaders who take themselves so seriously that running my build on the community railroad will be see as an affront to their dignity. I like that idea! 3. I enjoyed myself and was proud of my result. 4. My son loved participating and is impressed with the results and my daughter watches with admiration from afar. 5. I do better work in a challenge/competition when I know other modellers are watching. There are plenty of other reasons to join that I could mention and which have been mentioned by others.

Most of us like to win and most of us like admiration, but the challenge isn’t about how good your skills are or about what you win unless that’s what you unfortunately choose to make it about…especially unfortunate if you choose not to participate at all because of it.

`As far as the voter turn-out goes, it was frankly discouraging that more people didn’t vote. I don’t know what the answer is, but I doubt the low turn-out is a result of the private/public voting issue (maybe it could be a little clearer from the beginning that you can vote privately), participants feeling that they shouldn’t vote (just don’t vote for yourself for goodness sake!), or how clear the prize categories were or weren’t (it can be tweaked but it’s basically fine that way it is). Like it or not, I suspect we challenge enthusiasts may have to face up to the cold fact that not that many people are all that interested in what we’re doing. Oh well. It’s disappointing, but I and apparently many of our other fellow challenge modellers participate for other very good reasons.

#24

David Maynard said:

…I ended up posting 2 separate threads on how I made the roof and windows for my building. …

p.s…I bookmarked that great window thread, so thanks for that!

#25

John Passaro said:

`As far as the voter turn-out goes, it was frankly discouraging that more people didn’t vote. I don’t know what the answer is, but I doubt the low turn-out is a result of the private/public voting issue (maybe it could be a little clearer from the beginning that you can vote privately), participants feeling that they shouldn’t vote (just don’t vote for yourself for goodness sake!), or how clear the prize categories were or weren’t (it can be tweaked but it’s basically fine that way it is). Like it or not, I suspect we challenge enthusiasts may have to face up to the cold fact that not that many people are all that interested in what we’re doing. Oh well. It’s disappointing, but I and apparently many of our other fellow challenge modellers participate for other very good reasons.

I believe John came close to the real reason of such low voter turnout. Some on site are only interested in their own glory. Some even stated they had no time for such a challenge, nor did they have any desire to view the works of others. They would much rather scrounge around the net to find a topic they can argue about discuss and they created. Their loss of the pleasure of the camaraderie that is part of the challenge be you a participant or viewer. Lots of good ideas and methods found throughout the builds.

Maybe limit the categories for prizes, the original had no prize except bragging rights, but you can’t force people to get out and vote.

#26

John Passaro said:

Like it or not, I suspect we challenge enthusiasts may have to face up to the cold fact that not that many people are all that interested in what we’re doing.

I think the number of views on the various threads show that there was plenty of interest.

Ralph

#27

There is an old adage that says ‘You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.’ I think that applies here in relation to viewing and voting. Dave M above has succinctly stated the mindset of some folks here. I think there is another mindset that may also apply. There are many threads here that I follow and read with interest, but do not comment on. The reasons for non comment may be varied from as simple as the thread is just curiosity to I don’t have enough knowledge on the subject of the thread to add any value to it. People are people and the diversity, good and bad, is what makes life ‘interesting’.

#28

In my mind, the annual Mik challenge is not about how many people voted. Votes really have nothing to do with it at all. It’s supposed to be a challenge, not a contest.

To me, that makes it a very individual thing. Challenge yourself to to something you’ve never tried before, or create a model that you would have never made.

Part of that challenge is showing off your work; getting ideas from some and inspiring others. You win because you accomplished something, not because you got enough votes to get a prize.

#29

Bruce Chandler said:

In my mind, the annual Mik challenge is not about how many people voted. Votes really have nothing to do with it at all. It’s supposed to be a challenge, not a contest.

To me, that makes it a very individual thing. Challenge yourself to to something you’ve never tried before, or create a model that you would have never made.

Part of that challenge is showing off your work; getting ideas from some and inspiring others. You win because you accomplished something, not because you got enough votes to get a prize.

I agree about the actual intention of the challenge. My comment on the vote was really only an observation about the fact that there were over 1000 hits on the final projects page yet we only had 28 votes, that’s almost as bad a turnout as an L.A. County election. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)

#30

So the voter turnout was about the same as our Fire District Budget voter turnout - nil to “aw, come on guys!” it doesn’t mean there were not a lot of “lurkers” watching these builds. The counts show they were well watched.

Me personally, I was not in it for the prizes. It was there to give me a little boost to get a build of something done, probably something I was putting off for too long.

I humbly suggest that in the topic that clearly says VOTE HERE should have no mention of prizes, just a beginner’s and “Not My First Try” category. Let the people who are donating the prizes decide who gets them, and if there is not a lot of votes for a “Mik’s Grand Prize”, don’t award it!

Might I remind all of “The First Rule of Mik”? HAVE FUN!

#31

This is being talked about because we want to feel like part of the family instead of a side show.

John

#32

I watched as many build threads as I could keep up with but I did not vote… for no other reason then I was just lazy…

I would suggest if it is possible, next build challenge (or anything that needs to be voted on) can a voters box just be displayed on the home page?

(see it on plenty of other forums)

That way everyone will see it and it will make it easier for people to vote.

#33

John Caughey said:

This is being talked about because we want to feel like part of the family instead of a side show.

John

So many of the participants have said what I feel only much better than I can convey it. I said I could careless about winning a prize… well BS, sure I wanted to win a prize, but like others stated not because I want to win in and of itself but because I wanted to participate and belong and strive to challenge myself and get recognition from, like John says, my large scale family. The winning is secondary, the prizes thirdary (like that word Joe?), for me the build wasn’t even about a personal challenge but rather the camaraderie. Sharing my build and sharing others builds was a hoot. I learned some interesting homegrown techniques and saw some real innovation. I guarantee there is a clock work loco (2’ gauge railbus) in my future. Its not about how many voted, or watched, or commented. Its about the ones who did; that group of people, either watchers or doers, that kept me going. OK so it wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea big deal. I don’t frequent many areas of this website because it does capture my interest. Scratch building is of little interest to a great many of people. Lets not bash them because they don’t want to watch us do it. Lets do it for those of us that do find it interesting.

All of the concerns here can be addressed with rule #1, have fun. Have fan building, have fun watching, whatever lets not get to hung up on it.

#34

Vincent D’Agostino said:

I watched as many build threads as I could keep up with but I did not vote… for no other reason then I was just lazy…

I would suggest if it is possible, next build challenge (or anything that needs to be voted on) can a voters box just be displayed on the home page?

(see it on plenty of other forums)

That way everyone will see it and it will make it easier for people to vote.

Good idea, not sure about Home page voting, but a quick link would help AND thumbnail pics (next to names) to link to the builds on the vote page. Open the pic and click it to go to the thread…

Maybe after Bob gets the transition kinks out he can help us with that by next year.

John

#35

Actually there may be a “cure” for poor voter turnout as well as a way to get people to vote “more honestly” (e.g., not just for their friend/against an …).

If there is something stronger than the “I’m not going to get involved!” mentality, it’s the “What’s in it for me?” mentality. (“That’s just the way it is… Some things will never change.”)

If people had incentive to vote, I’m thinking that more would. So, (Option 1), offer 1-3 prizes to be awarded at random to all those people who submit votes. Many people will vote just for a chance at a prize…, period.

Or, (Option 2), even better, bring the audience into the Challenge. In this last challenge there were 6 items to be voted on (napkin, spirit, rookie, 1st, 2nd, 3rd). The person who voted and got the most items in the correct “placement” wins a prize. So if you got all 6 in their correct order, you would receive 6 points. If more than one person end up with the same correct number, they go to a random drawing.

Now, people will actually look at the builds and try to determine which has the best chance of winning rather than just voting (or not) for a friend (or not) because you are trying to determine how the overall membership will see things. Of course this would necessitate a “secret ballot” so that people voting toward the beginning of the period have the same chance as those voting toward the end, who would otherwise know how things are trending.

And, of course this does make it harder on the vote counters.

#36

No…

Sorry, but I’m not buying eyes.

I agree we could make it easier, but I’d rather punt the prizes than make them a focus.

The Challenge is/was to get new folks joining. Opening the door and sharing our knowledge to help each other succeed.

I want to keep the Spirit Award as best reflecting Mik’s Artistic style. By rights my critter deserved the percentage of votes it got (would have been near last in prizes), but with my ‘rough scale’ work it matched his style. Having the Mik category will help others to find a niche and occasionally win a brag!

Just my thoughts,

John

#37

Yeah I kinda have to agree the prizes shouldn’t be the focus, nor should the actual mechanics of voting, just it would be nice to see some of the lurkers participate. That’s what I was trying to do by encouraging the vote, and then maybe next year they’d join in. That remains to be seen till next time.

The challenge may only ever be limited to those few who are willing to try to bash something together. Its hard to forget just how many RTR folks there are out there.

3500 LSC members, 17 finalist, 28 votes, maybe next year we should devalue the prizes and votes and just focus on the modeling. One idea I had about the prizes next year I liked was that Mik always liked to swap stuff. maybe that’s something to consider next year, instead of ‘prizes’, entrants/winners have to swap something with each other.

#38

What put me off was the 40-50 different topics to vote in. Worse than a presidential year ballet. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#39

Vic Smith said:

Yeah I kinda have to agree the prizes shouldn’t be the focus, nor should the actual mechanics of voting, just it would be nice to see some of the lurkers participate. That’s what I was trying to do by encouraging the vote, and then maybe next year they’d join in. That remains to be seen till next time.

The challenge may only ever be limited to those few who are willing to try to bash something together. Its hard to forget just how many RTR folks there are out there.

3500 LSC members, 17 finalist, 28 votes, maybe next year we should devalue the prizes and votes and just focus on the modeling. One idea I had about the prizes next year I liked was that Mik always liked to swap stuff. maybe that’s something to consider next year, instead of ‘prizes’, entrants/winners have to swap something with each other.

Now Vic I like this idea if it can be orchestrated.

#40

Yea, its nice to win a prize. Its nice to win bragging rights. Its nice.

I participate because it gets me moving again on my projects, and it gets me moving on projects languishing on the someday list. But the biggest reason I participate, is because its fun watching my vision evolve alongside other folks’s visions based on the same set of criterion.

I used to enter my stuff into the model contest at the ECLSTS, back when there was a contest. I would hate to see the spirit of Mik get lost in the contest part. As I understand the Spirit of Mik, its to make something, something reasonably decent, out of left overs and junque, and to have fun doing it. Last year I used beer cans and pieces of scrap ceder. This year I used cardboard and paper-clips. Maybe some year I will be using chewing gum and bailing wire, who knows? But the point is, is to do as much as you can, with whatever left overs are on hand, and have fun doing it. That part should not get lost.