Large Scale Central

Making the jump to Airwire

Electronics Power and Sound
#41

I can see an older 27 MHZ radio be susceptible to interference, but not so much the newer 900 MHZ radio. And of course with 2.4 Gigs, there should be very minimal noise, if at all. So if Mr. Maynard hasn’t experienced any problems with his CB radio, then I can’t see a 900 MHZ radio having interference issues.

I’ve seen Dennis Serrine’s videos on Youtube. I can just visualize him running around trying to get one of his trains to stop. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)What an outrageous layout he has!

#42

Greg or Kevin, if I wanted to use 2.4 gigs, but not REVO, and wanted to stay with battery, what would you suggest that I use?

#43

Steve Featherkile said:

Greg or Kevin, if I wanted to use 2.4 gigs, but not REVO, and wanted to stay with battery, what would you suggest that I use?

Steve I be neither Greg nor Kevin but I do make really good 2.4 Ghz R/C that does many of the things other systems can do, and some more besides.
EG. Nothing extra needed for Kadee servo uncoupling. Just plug the Kadee servo into the Ch # 5 slot on the Rx.

Flexible too. Use Either “LOW” OFF control ESC’s or “CENTRE” OFF ESC’s.

Plus of course Live Steam as well.

#44

Michael Kirrene said:

… and at the inconvenience of drinking batteries like crazy at full power, then it sure doesn’t sound real appetizing. But Airwire was/is number one for a reason, so it problems like this exist, not everyone is complaining about compromises here…

The batteries in my T-5000 (two AAA batteries) will last me probably about 8 - 10 hours at full power if I had to put a figure on it. I’ve actually never logged it; it just seems like I change batteries fairly often compared to my older Airwire throttles. It could have a lot to do with it using only two batteries as opposed to the older ones using three, and also me using the T-5000 more often since I use it for programming. In the grand scheme of things, I’m probably making a lot more out of the issue than it really is, and one can always use rechargeable batteries if it’s a concern. (I’ve never had luck with NiMH batteries holding a charge over time, so they’d likely almost always be dead when I needed them.)

Michael Kirrene said:
… I would prefer to sit my butt in a chair with a cold brewski and still be able to slow a train down on a curve or prevent a train from running into the back of another, or change a switch to enable one train to wait on a siding while another passes, all on the other side of the yard. Seems to me those are basic functions that a transmitter should be able to handle 50-100 feet away.
…

When you start getting into being able to remotely throw switches, you’re bringing in an extra layer of complexity to the equation of what system is “best,” and also significantly narrowing your choices to those which can actually offer control from one transmitter of multiple locos and accessories. That’s pretty much Revolution, Airwire, and Locolinc (very small market share, but still advertised. Web site hasn’t been updated since 2010.) The good news is that even for systems whose range may be limited, the control center for operating a bunch of remote switches can easily be located within range of the operator’s chair of choice.

Later,

K

#45

Gee, the batteries in my old 27 megacycle TE last for years. I think there are 4 AA batteries in it, but I haven’t changed them in so long I forget.

The more Yunz talk, the more I want to keep my old TE working as long as I can. I even bought a backup TE just in case.

#46

The problem with interference is the IF frequency, AM radio was 455 kilohertz, FM radio was 10.7 megahertz.

I have no idea what the IF is for the newer frequencies being used, but this is where interference can take place as it is much lower than the transmitted/receive frequency. And some systems have mutiple IF frequencies.

This is how radio works. Note that for 2 way communication like my DCC system has, the base/command station has to send out info back to the wireless handheld.

http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Terminology/RF-vs-IF.html

#47

David, the difference is that the old TE transmitters only used power when the buttons were pressed. The Airwire throttles are constantly sending signals.

Later,

K

#48

Dan Pierce said:

The problem with interference is the IF frequency, AM radio was 455 kilohertz, FM radio was 10.7 megahertz.

I have no idea what the IF is for the newer frequencies being used, but this is where interference can take place as it is much lower than the transmitted/receive frequency. And some systems have mutiple IF frequencies.

This is how radio works. Note that for 2 way communication like my DCC system has, the base/command station has to send out info back to the wireless handheld.

http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Terminology/RF-vs-IF.html

Dan, thanks for that. So ‘Radio’ and ‘Intermediate’, with IF the more susceptible frequency to interference here.

#49

Kevin Strong said:

David, the difference is that the old TE transmitters only used power when the buttons were pressed. The Airwire throttles are constantly sending signals.

Later,

K

Kevin, I know. But batteries are expensive, and I am a cheap bast person.

#50

There were 2 types of 27 mhz black TE transmitters.

The newest one with the on/off button did consume power until turned off, and there was a built in timer to shut it off when not used for awhile.

I also believe the revo draws a minute amount of power when off, batteries should be removed if left off for a long time.

#51

Dan, yes I have the one with an on/off button. Its auto shut off can be troublesome. After a hour of roundy roundy, if I need to panic stop because of something, I cant, because the transmitter has fallen asleep (shut itself off). I suggested to Aristo that they modify then next version so the emergency stop button also turns the thing on, so it can emergency stop the train in an emergency. I got a no answer answer from Tate, and then the Revo came out. So I figured that the TE was basically dead when I made my suggestion, so that is why I was dismissed out of hand.

#52

Don Sweet said:

Ouch!, Kevin is that why my teeth hurt when I think about CV’s?

In a perfect world we could visit a store where they have all these different systems to demo and listen to. Years ago that was the norm. In our club at the NHGRS we have had meetings where I will offer demos on various systems. I recently showed the prototype BlueTom. A blue tooth motor driver/receiver plugged into in a Aristo GP-40. Smooth running but a work in progress.

Boomer, I asked Navin about future sounds and he said to meet with Jae Kim at The East Coast Show and ask him about future capabilities.

Don

Don, a couple of times you mentioned that you were going to pick the brains of the REVO boys at ECLSTS. What did you learn?

I’m curious about the Ring Engineering tech. Their website mentions nada for Large Scale. What can you tell us about it?

#53

Hi Steve, I do owe you guys feedback on my visit with Mr. Kim and Navin and the soon to be released Large Scale loco module from Ring Engineering.

Revolution System: sales are good. Strong sales are needed to support Mr. Kim’s efforts in producing the products again. Maybe this summer there will be more diesel sounds. I am waiting for my USB device programmer as they are still on back order. I have learned the hard way that the Revo audio amp prefers 8 ohm speakers and will blow out on 4 ohm. My recommendation is to use only 8 ohm speakers. When using the small PnP adapter board, you can rotate it underneath the Revo board to take up less space. Navin is there to help us and will do any repair work on past or current products.

Ring Engineering’s RailPro large scale module is on schedule. They have been testing using a SD-45 and SD-70 locos. I might have a sample board to try in May. As soon as I can I will post all the specs and some unique features.

#54

Airwire’s relatively new T 1300 OPS throttle has a rechargeable battery accessed through a USB port for charging. Rated for 40 hours between charges. Good throttle for when you just want to run trains. I have one now but will soon get another for guests to use because they are simple to operate.

#55

If I ever went to battery operation, my selection would definitely be on a system that supports full DCC control of motor, sound, lights and other features of DCC.

My present DCC operations use servos for engine remote uncoupling, pulsed smoke (yeah, I know this is a big battery load but it can be turned off!!), plus light, motor, and sound control.

It would be nice for read back of the digital setups, even if it was just on the test bench.

#56

Often I see people say they don’t want a DCC decoder even on battery because they state, like Bruce, they only use the bell and whistle. But the features in DCC decoders are not just what you control remotely, and what is important for us, is the “pull through” technology. HO is the big market, and basically adding bigger output transistors, and possibly more lighting and/or servo outputs is easy to “upgrade” and HO decoder to Large Scale.

Said again: It’s pretty easy to take an HO decoder and make a LS product too.

The “purpose built” Large Scale sound cards and decoders, necessarily are smaller companies in most cases, and it’s harder for them to add more features, or better technology to reduce space/cost, and also to fund the more and more important sound files.

So, if I was battery, I would definitely go with a system that allowed me a choice of any DCC decoder I wanted to use.

Greg

#57

In your opinion Greg , which one would fill your requirements IF you were to suddenly change to battery operation?

#58

That’s pretty easy, I’d figure out how to use an NCE system with deadrail using the same decoders I like now.

I think this could be done, and I’d have multiple throttles and a system that could handle many users many locos and no restrictions in the decoders I use.

Also, I could have emergency stop, loco handoff, advanced consisting, turnout and accessory control, etc.

Greg

#59

To use an NCE system as Greg describes, you’d need only put a Tam Valley Depot transmitter on the output of an existing NCE system. That transmitter broadcasts a signal which would be understood by Tam Valley Depot “DRS1” and Airwire “Convertr” receivers, feeding any generic DCC decoder. If you’ve already got the DCC command station setup, it’s an easy way to go about things, Since you’d already be familiar with the controllers, there’d be no additional learning curve. The TVD transmitter would work on the output of any DCC command station. The TVD transmitter operates on Airwire’s channel 16, so you’d have to program your receiver to that frequency.

Later,

K

#60

And to top it off, you can use the $200 NCE PowerCab system, where you get the fancy throttle and command station and power supply for that price… then you can add radio cabs, USB interface for JMRI, etc.

Greg