Dan Gilchrist said:
This is NOT what I want to hear. I have 235 work days left and was looking forward to getting EVERYTHING done!
now you got but two days per week to see things around the house, that are not “right”. - and a nice excuse: “i’ll do it, when i got time”
in a year you got seven days a week to notice what misses a “helping hand” - and absolutely NO excuse to postpone the fixing…
I was participating in the challenge and I enjoy it. But the last few times I was participating, things got in the way. I got a respiratory infection one year, and another year my boss sent me out of town for a week during the challenge. This year my boss is threatening, again, to send me out of town around the time of the challenge. Since the training class in question has been cancelled/rescheduled at least 3 times now, I can’t say if he will pull it off this time or not.
Also, with the personnel reduction my company has gone through, I end up out of town, to help other territories in my company, with very little notice. One month I spent 2 weeks in a hotel in York, and a night in a hotel in Utica. With my uncertain schedule these days, I probably won’t be participating in the challenge.
Dave, please keep doing the challenge. Even though I may not participate, I appreciate your efforts to keep this tradition/activity going. And I am sure others doo too.
Sometimes, when I am building, I get scratched, bashed, bruised, cut, and otherwise injured. So I guess that makes me a scratch-builder, and a basher. 
I just opened up LSC for the first time in a month and find out wha t you hav e been up too! I think you guys have covered all the bases.
I have not been in surprised at the quality of the scratch building over the years because it is way better than mine but I keep trying! I look forward to the Challenge. Now I just have to start thinking about what I might be doing!
IMO I think that why more don’t do the MIK challenge is that most people just need that satisfaction build bash they start and don’t document it. Then realized at the end that if I had only documented that. And then the fact that adding pictures on here just plain sucks If you don’t have a PC!
Jason
Eric Mueller said:
Thanks for the data analysis! It makes me wonder of the market drives what we choose to try and model or if what we choose to model drives the market!
Personally I think, among other factors, this is why we are seeing a decline in the train hobby in general. As noted here we are all over the map. Take into account that hobbies like this are dying out due to electronics and kids being interested in other things and then such a wide variety of modeling interest and it is nearly impossible for a company to please everyone with their offerings.
Dave,
I don’t know if I get to claim this or not but I am going too, I am probably one of the more enthusiastic challenge participators. I came to LSC because it was the home of the challenge. I had seen it over at the other place and when I finally pulled the trigger in Large Scale was disappointed to see it gone, that was until John C told me it moved and here I landed.
What the challenge means to me. First I love scratch building. Second I love using whats on hand. Third it forces me to think outside the box to develop a concept around a single piece or thing. But at the end of the day I can do all these things without the challenge. What the Challenge really means to me is just participating with a great group of people with all sorts of skill levels and seeing what we all come up with. I am not gonna lie I like seeing my name in lights, but I could care less about “winning” and would do it if I never got any recognition.
One thing I have seen that maybe is an issue is your dedication to making the challenge unique and interesting and different year to year. You do such an excellent job that you have made it hard for yourself to keep up with the challenge of making the challenge challenging ( lol).
What I think may or may not be able to happen. I love it when you provide a single item we all work from. A door is a great place to start. Every era, every town, even rolling stock has doors. Since we are all over the map on scale I think one could get away with a few generic sizes of whatever you are making. A 1:32/1:29, a 1:20.3/1:22.5/1:24, and then a 7/8ths. They are close enough that most people can make them work. And while I know you love casting, maybe enlisting the help of one of our 3D printer guys would help. Scaling is easy and they can print multiple at a time for pennies. If and when I ever get my resin printer I would be more than wiling to volunteer as I am sure others will also.
Maybe by doing something more generic even like a pile of lumber. One of my favorite challenges to date was the 2X4 challenge. When I first thought about the Challenge when MIK was still alive was to see what people could come up with using a toilet paper roll.
Whatever we do, we need to keep this going. I think the results to your survey show we are scratch builders that love to model all sorts of stuff. I think participation through the years has been good. One commented on how impressed they were that we still engage in the art of scratch building/kit bashing. From what i understand of Large scale it started with scratch building and kit bashing and with the decline in the hobby I see it coming back to it. The Challenge fits this perfectly at a time when most of us have time to do it.
And it seems to give me a reason to clean my shop and hobby room once a year
I think the biggest reason so many of us scratch/kitbash is because we are being so poorly serves by manufacturers, they seem to have either folded up or mostly forgotten about us. With HLW and MTH pulling up stakes, Charlie Ro passing, who knows what the future holds, I spent the last few years since the recession buying more than I can use just to have stuff to mess with. A lack of available product means if I want something particular, I’ll likely have to build it.
Devon Sinsley said:
And it seems to give me a reason to clean my shop and hobby room once a year
Once a year??? Now you sound like my bachelor brother: “The trouble with cleaning the house is that next year you just have to do it all again.”
Bruce Chandler said:
Devon Sinsley said:
And it seems to give me a reason to clean my shop and hobby room once a year
Once a year??? Now you sound like my bachelor brother: “The trouble with cleaning the house is that next year you just have to do it all again.”
My kinda guy…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
Bruce Chandler said:
Devon Sinsley said:
And it seems to give me a reason to clean my shop and hobby room once a year
Once a year??? Now you sound like my bachelor brother: “The trouble with cleaning the house is that next year you just have to do it all again.”
Well, I’ll just be darned, I didn’t know we were brothers, Bruce (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Vic Smith said:
I think the biggest reason so many of us scratch/kitbash is because we are being so poorly serves by manufacturers, they seem to have either folded up or mostly forgotten about us.
I don’t think the market is poorly served, I think our niche in the market is small enough that there is not enough profit in the product to produce the spectrum of product you see in the smaller scales with a far greater population of hobbyists. With mold costs likely over $50k to make one loco, the cost recovery is too long to be profitable in Large Scale.
With HLW and MTH pulling up stakes, Charlie Ro passing, who knows what the future holds,
I think the future holds a lot more scratch and bash than is has in the past. And it will be more for necessity than pure pleasure. I think the small garage businesses are going to make a come back, specializing in the components that are not conveniently made with inexpensive 3D printers. Speaking for myself, wheels, trucks and couplers are the only commercial items I must purchase, simply for reliability. I think the future is the mom and pop that builds a reliable motor block folks can use for diesels, and someone picks up along the lines of BBT for a steam pattern. As an aside, the only real magic to a BBT drive is the aluminum extrusion Barry owned.
I spent the last few years since the recession buying more than I can use just to have stuff to mess with. A lack of available product means if I want something particular, I’ll likely have to build it.
That statement tells me you are already in the withdrawal mode pulling back to not rely on big manufacturers. This shrinking of the LS suppliers has been progressing for the last 10 years, if you paid attention. The big bang came when AristoCraft folded up their tent. I had experiences with Aristo two years before they closed up shop that told me they were imploding. I was told I didn’t know what I was talking about. The announcement that Bachmann was not going to produce any more 1:20.3 after Lee passed was not surprise.
Folks need to take off the rose colored glasses and see the reality that the hobby is changing. The days of superior RTR for inexpensive money are gone. Shake the box kits are gone. We are going back to a time of ‘MODEL MAKING’, where models are made, not just glued together. Purchased detail parts and construction materials will be how ti goes.
I agree with Bob and it was well stated. We are a niche market in a niche hobby that is past its prime. I don’t think it will die but we will have to change how we see it. I personally will enjoy the switch from mass production to mom and pop and specialty outfits like Precision and Ozark. And the 3D aspect of the hobby will make it even easier as the products can be made on demand as opposed to having a stock on hand. We will see. But as a scratch builder I am going to be around for a long time. Like Vic I am hoarding motor blocks and chassis so that I can build for a long time.
Vic Smith said:
I think the biggest reason so many of us scratch/kitbash is because we are being so poorly serves by manufacturers, they seem to have either folded up or mostly forgotten about us. With HLW and MTH pulling up stakes, Charlie Ro passing, who knows what the future holds, I spent the last few years since the recession buying more than I can use just to have stuff to mess with. A lack of available product means if I want something particular, I’ll likely have to build it.
I too have been stocking up a bit on used items for future projects, not just in large scale, but also in HO. While HO does have a lot more choices in products, the prices are moving beyond my reach. Large scale is also moving up in its price points, along with less choices in the available products.
While it is nice to have RTR products available, to save time and effort, it also gets a bit redundant, to see the same item on every railroad that that one sees. So building, bashing, and modifying may become more common in the future in Large Scale, I am actually looking forward to some of the creations various folks come up with.
Bob Cope said:
Vic Smith said:
I think the biggest reason so many of us scratch/kitbash is because we are being so poorly serves by manufacturers, they seem to have either folded up or mostly forgotten about us.
I don’t think the market is poorly served, I think our niche in the market is small enough that there is not enough profit in the product to produce the spectrum of product you see in the smaller scales with a far greater population of hobbyists. With mold costs likely over $50k to make one loco, the cost recovery is too long to be profitable in Large Scale.
With HLW and MTH pulling up stakes, Charlie Ro passing, who knows what the future holds,
I think the future holds a lot more scratch and bash than is has in the past. And it will be more for necessity than pure pleasure. I think the small garage businesses are going to make a come back, specializing in the components that are not conveniently made with inexpensive 3D printers. Speaking for myself, wheels, trucks and couplers are the only commercial items I must purchase, simply for reliability. I think the future is the mom and pop that builds a reliable motor block folks can use for diesels, and someone picks up along the lines of BBT for a steam pattern. As an aside, the only real magic to a BBT drive is the aluminum extrusion Barry owned.
I spent the last few years since the recession buying more than I can use just to have stuff to mess with. A lack of available product means if I want something particular, I’ll likely have to build it.
That statement tells me you are already in the withdrawal mode pulling back to not rely on big manufacturers. This shrinking of the LS suppliers has been progressing for the last 10 years, if you paid attention. The big bang came when AristoCraft folded up their tent. I had experiences with Aristo two years before they closed up shop that told me they were imploding. I was told I didn’t know what I was talking about. The announcement that Bachmann was not going to produce any more 1:20.3 after Lee passed was not surprise.
Folks need to take off the rose colored glasses and see the reality that the hobby is changing. The days of superior RTR for inexpensive money are gone. Shake the box kits are gone. We are going back to a time of ‘MODEL MAKING’, where models are made, not just glued together. Purchased detail parts and construction materials will be how ti goes.
I suspect all of have different reasons for scratch building. I did it because I enjoyed it so much. I could NEVER get into the idea of buying something that was ready to run. It was NOT as much fun, and I looked forward to each issue of MR or RMC to see what I could learn to further my skills. Now, with a lot of the manufacturers pulling up stakes the options do seem to be more limited, but I keep seeing folks stepping up to fill the gap - of course many of them have not continued - you just have to get what’s available when it IS available. Heck, it’s not just the LS manufacturers that have gone by the wayside - check out the magazines and compare today to what was available 40 years ago. Of course you also need to look at what has replaced the magazines - this forum, for example. Sure the hobby is changing. When did it NOT change?
I run Diesels and the freight cars that I wanted to run were not commercially made back then…
My scratch building started because I wanted Auto-racks and TOFC’s…
I completed one Auto-rack and 2 TOFC’s, along with an Auto-Max…
Have more parts ready to put together for an auto-rack or TOFC, but I got bored doing
the same thing, over and over… It was a challenge to build it once…
USA trains now makes auto-racks…
Just my reasoning…
Bob Cope said:
Vic Smith said:
I think the biggest reason so many of us scratch/kitbash is because we are being so poorly serves by manufacturers, they seem to have either folded up or mostly forgotten about us.
I don’t think the market is poorly served, I think our niche in the market is small enough that there is not enough profit in the product to produce the spectrum of product you see in the smaller scales with a far greater population of hobbyists. With mold costs likely over $50k to make one loco, the cost recovery is too long to be profitable in Large Scale.
With HLW and MTH pulling up stakes, Charlie Ro passing, who knows what the future holds,
I think the future holds a lot more scratch and bash than is has in the past. And it will be more for necessity than pure pleasure. I think the small garage businesses are going to make a come back, specializing in the components that are not conveniently made with inexpensive 3D printers. Speaking for myself, wheels, trucks and couplers are the only commercial items I must purchase, simply for reliability. I think the future is the mom and pop that builds a reliable motor block folks can use for diesels, and someone picks up along the lines of BBT for a steam pattern. As an aside, the only real magic to a BBT drive is the aluminum extrusion Barry owned.
I spent the last few years since the recession buying more than I can use just to have stuff to mess with. A lack of available product means if I want something particular, I’ll likely have to build it.
That statement tells me you are already in the withdrawal mode pulling back to not rely on big manufacturers. This shrinking of the LS suppliers has been progressing for the last 10 years, if you paid attention. The big bang came when AristoCraft folded up their tent. I had experiences with Aristo two years before they closed up shop that told me they were imploding. I was told I didn’t know what I was talking about. The announcement that Bachmann was not going to produce any more 1:20.3 after Lee passed was not surprise.
Folks need to take off the rose colored glasses and see the reality that the hobby is changing. The days of superior RTR for inexpensive money are gone. Shake the box kits are gone. We are going back to a time of ‘MODEL MAKING’, where models are made, not just glued together. Purchased detail parts and construction materials will be how ti goes.
Bob your first paragraph is the definition of being poorly served (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
I agree with everything else, my biggest pet pieve is that I can live without new product, but for Pete’s Sakes will SOMEBODY produce some valid drive blocks. That’s the one thing I cannot scratch-build, well not easily. I honestly feel like I am inevitably going to have to purchase a 3D printer and a small milling lath to make driver wheels if I ever want to build some of the models I’d like to build. For the time being I will just keep bashing Macks and other existing models.
