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  • Topic: Anybody? Ideas on modelling 1:24 stairs/ladders?

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    • January 12, 2018 3:43 PM EST
      • Denver, Colorado
         
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      Anybody? Ideas on modelling 1:24 stairs/ladders?

         My search on the internet has come up shockingly unproductive in finding models for me to copy for stairs and ladders for my mining district for this year's challenge. I'm really surprised, but I just couldn't find much. Does anyone have any ideas......specifically pictures of course....for appropriate stairs and ladders?

       

         Oh yes, I did find many complicated examples:

       

                             

       

       

         But I am looking for something less complicated, less time-consuming, more appropriate to a mine, and, most significantly, more within my skill level.

       

         Thanks in advance.

       

       

      ____________________________________

    • January 12, 2018 4:31 PM EST
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Ladders don't have railings! Maybe ropes or cables strung where they've lost a couple ... one is an accident, 3 or more is a problem

       

      See M C Escher for stairway planning...

      This post was edited by John Caughey at January 13, 2018 5:58 PM EST
      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • January 12, 2018 5:11 PM EST
      • Denver, Colorado
         
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          Last year I made this ladder here and a couple like it, but I'm not all that impressed:

       

                               

       

                           

       

       

      ____________________________________

    • January 12, 2018 5:13 PM EST
      • Denver, Colorado
         
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      John Caughey said:

      Ladders don't have railings! Maybe ropes or cables strung where they've lost a couple ... one is an accident, 3 or more is a problem

       

      See M C Escher for stairway planning...

       

         People have tried!

       

         

       

       

      ____________________________________

    • January 12, 2018 5:15 PM EST
      • Victoria, Gondwana
         
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      An understanding of how carpentry/joinery works in practical situations will help. The example photo top although obviously a whimsical model has staircases that would quickly collapse if made from timber.
      Usually they have a side stringer that goes from where it is mounted to bear load and usually it is a wide board for the span therefore boxes in the steps.
      In the old days they often had something half way between a ladder and staircase with a single wooden rail to hang on to. In many places such steep stairs are illegal now for safety reasons.

      http://www.imgrum.org/media/1664409830566482975_4278535905

       

      This post was edited by Paradise at January 13, 2018 5:59 PM EST
    • January 12, 2018 5:29 PM EST
      • Scottsdale, Arizona
         
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      From my Construction and Architectural background, ladders have rungs place 12 inches apart and should be place at an angle of 4 in 12.  In other words if the ladder is 12 feet tall the base should be out 4 feet from where the top of the ladder rests.  However in many mines the ladders were more vertical than that but space away from the wall so there is space for the foot to be place center on the rung so the toes do not hit the wall.

      Stairs use a 16 inch module.  That is the rise and the run should be 16 inches.  Therefore if the rise is 6 inches then the step (or run) should be 10 inches.  Handrails should be place 42 inches above the leading edge of the step or stair.  All this is relative to the natural step a person takes.

    • January 12, 2018 5:56 PM EST
      • Topaz, more evil than your average kitty
         
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      John here are my thoughts on ladders and stairs.

      Prior to WWII and the mass introduction of aluminum products rough cut wood was the most common material. People made their own ladders in one of several different styles.

      Primitive people used pine poles lashed together with rawhide, vine or green tree bark. Some used holes drilled through the legs with branches inserted in a friction fit.

       

       

       

      During a mines initial construction rope ladders might have been used. Carlsbad Caverns in Southern New Mexico was originally developed as a guano mine using rope ladders. These were later replaced with wooden stairs and a bucket hoist.

       

      A lot of early pioneers had basic carpentry skills and would fashion buildings and items using tools such as a scorp, hammer and chisel. This allowed the wood to be rough hewed to shape, pockets for the rungs could then be cut out. The ladder could be held together with bindings at the top and bottom removing the need for expensive hard to get screws and nails. As the wood dried or wore down the bindings were tightened.

       

       

       

       

      If the miner had a saw he might notch the legs to recess the rungs instead. Each rung would be attached using screws or nails through the end. Or he might skip the recess and nail the rungs on the side.

       

       

       

      For mine with several workers and a lot of traffic a modern version of the primitive ladder could be bought and brought in. Here clean cut dimensional lumber is used going back to the idea of drilling a hole in the legs and inserting round rungs. These could be held in place by nails or end caps

       

      Any of these could be easily made out of strip wood. Due to their small size I would recommend something hard such as bass, yellow pine or even oak. Soft hobby woods like balsa and cedar will be very fragile.

      For stairs of the time period there are two basic styles. Both woud have been common and within the skill set of a pioneer.

      This:

       

      or this:

       

      In a heavy traffic mines the second version with a center stringer would have been used.

       

       

      The same considerations apply to both versions. A landing every 10 to 20 feet in vertical height would be needed to support turns.

      The rise and run of the stairs would be based on a 7" step average but space might lead to something steeper.

       

      Once again I would build using hardwoods. A jig to make the stringers and set the step intervals will save you a lot of cursing.

      For exterior steps you might try building stone or adobe steps.

       

      As an alternative mines used both open and closed hoists for personnel, mules and mine cars. In small operations a bucket hoist is a given.

       

      Hope this helps John. I look forward to seeing your creation.

      ____________________________________

       

      Boomer

      Topaz the spare parts kitty: a wholly owned subsidiary of Satan Inc. "We don't just destroy your dreams, we swallow your soul"

    • January 12, 2018 8:56 PM EST
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Lynn Haven, FL
         
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      Collin, 

       

      The formula I have used for 40 years detailing steel is 2 x Rise + Run = 25. I have never heard of that one. I will have to do some comparisons.

       

      Bob C.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

    • January 12, 2018 9:03 PM EST
      • Shawn carries, A Purse 02B12,
         
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      The man want's to build a ladder for his Mik challenge this year

    • January 13, 2018 6:42 AM EST
      • Chaco, Paraguay
         
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      you could build one from steel:

       

       

      but a raise of 1' with a step of 11" is too steep,

      ____________________________________

       

      My Chaosplace ->  

    • January 13, 2018 8:41 AM EST
      • West Grove, Pennsylvania
         
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      Check out a Doll House catalog. They usually have stuff in there from 1:24 to 1:12 scale. 

      It may also give you an idea on how to build them. 

      https://www.minishop.com/

      ____________________________________

      "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --Martin Luther King Jr

    • January 13, 2018 8:48 AM EST
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Lynn Haven, FL
         
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      Another option is Plastruct, injection molded ABS plastic. Www.plastruct.com

       

      They also make a plethora of other parts for modeling. I keep their catalog on my desktop.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

    • January 13, 2018 9:13 AM EST
      • Berkshire, Ma.
         
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      What I have done is two different size brass wire cut a bunch of the small size wrap ends around the larger size space and then solder. done paint

      Richard 

      also what you can get small angle brass put small wire in angle space solder. Make a wood board with spacers that will hold small wire at right spacing

      This post was edited by Richard at January 13, 2018 9:19 AM EST
    • January 13, 2018 9:40 AM EST
      • Cape Cod,
         
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      Stairs are perplexing but maybe I can help with a simple ladder.

      I have ripped thin strips of wood then taped them together and drilled holes through them about every 1/2 inch and then used 4 penny finish nails for rungs.  They rust up which adds to the old look.

      Drill the holes so the nails will be a tight fit or you could use a drop of glue on each.   This ladder is cheap and easy to build.

       Here is a photo of my winch house that had the balcony ripped off by a falling branch but you can see the ladder below.  The balcony has since been replaced for the safety of our employees.

       

       

       

       

       

    • January 13, 2018 10:02 AM EST
      • Choctaw, Oklahoma
         
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      John,

       

      Here are some photos of simple ladders I built for my water tank project.  They are made from cedar strips I ripped from a piece of 1" x 4" cedar fence board.  The rungs are spaced 1 scale foot apart.  They are quick and easy to make and surprisingly strong after assembly with Titebond III wood glue.

       

      Bob

       

       

       

       

    • January 13, 2018 10:40 AM EST
      • Spokane Valley, Washington St.
         
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      I make my ladders out of 1/16 square (Wood or styrene) then drill and push brass rod thru for the rungs. I'll get a pic posted later today.

    • January 13, 2018 1:50 PM EST
      • Scottsdale, Arizona
         
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      Bob C, 

      So using your formula ("The formula I have used for 40 years detailing steel is 2 x Rise + Run = 25") a stair with a 6 inch rise would have a 13 in run.  I have a degree in Construction Engineering and have been a Superintendent/Project Manager  on very large Construction Projects for the past 45 years and have never seen a stair like that not even in steel.  I also was a wood framer during my college years and built many stairs on the projects I was on.  All using the 16 inch module (more or less) for the rise/run.  I am not trying to nit pic, but that is what I was taught and have used successfully.

      Colin (please spell it right) 

       

    • January 13, 2018 6:01 PM EST
      • Denver, Colorado
         
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          Thanks everyone for the excellent ideas...I knew I could count on you guys.

       

      ____________________________________

    • January 13, 2018 6:16 PM EST
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Lynn Haven, FL
         
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      Colin,

       

      My apologies for the mis-spelling. I have used this formula for everything from long run landscape to ship ladders, and always felt comfortable ascending/descending them. I am in no way shorting your education nor experience, it just appears the my education (a structural professional engineer) and experience differs from mine.

       

      Bob C.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

    • January 13, 2018 8:14 PM EST
      • Victoria, Gondwana
         
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      The formula '2 x rise + run = 25' has limits so not all postulations are considered safe. There are reference charts with a 'sweet zone'. Also, a landing is required after so many steps depending on how steep they are which may vary for different regional laws. Steps can also be accident prone when using a typical rise and a long going. It is common in landscaping to have a shorter rise as the going increases.
      Such safety requirements were not in place in the early days though so may be irrelevant for an early era model. Industrial sites were often quite dangerous places compared to modern requirements with lots of places to fall from into the gnarling cogs. Makes a model more interesting...
      Below is a handy chart:

       

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