I am expanding my raised live steam layout. To save some money I would like to use some Aristocraft track that I have on hand. Since I model narrow gauge I would like to remove the Aristo tie strips and replace them with larger wood ties. I have heard of using cedar for its rot resistance but I have some redwood and sitka spruce on hand. Do any of you have experience with these woods as ties? Did you use a sealer/preservative of some type, spikes vs screws, predrill or not and how did they hold up? I live in Florida where the sunshine degrades materials exposed to it as these will be.

Thanks, Tom

Depends on the Redwood.

Is it solid heartwood or yellow/white sapwood? If close grain heartwood it should hold up well, I treat all my Redwood bridges, switch ties and cribbing with a mixture of diesel and used motor oil once a year. Some of them have been in the strong summer sun for as long as 10 to 15 years and still going strong. Use steel spikes not stainless steel, the steel will rust and lock into the wood, stainless spikes back out creating all kinds of problems. The Redwood is soft enough that you shouldn’t have to pre drill, just push the spikes in.

Cedar works well depending on the type of Cedar, Western Red or Incense Cedar are the best for use as ties.

Just my opinions, others mileage may vary.

I have a few boards of old-growth redwood that I have been milling down for bridge ties, supporting wood on buildings, etc. I stain them with Minwax oil based walnut stain, and I have to touch it up every couple of years. Longest bridge is now five years old and still in great shape.

Thanks Rick and Bob,

The redwood was gifted to me by my sister’s neighbor leftover from some landscaping projects. It is in the form of 5.25" square post cut offs and seems quite dense and probably heartwood from Rick’s description. I think I will chop off some pieces and cut ties on my bandsaw to see how they look.

I was thinking about a soak in Thompson’s water seal but it has not so good reviews lately. I found copper-green brown wood preservative which might be better. The ties will sit on composite fascia board which tops my railway so they will be wet when it rains. I have found that Micro Engineering makes 1/2" spikes and also the transition (code 250-332) rail joiners that I will need. Are there other good sources for spikes?

Thanks again guys, Tom

Tom, It doesn’t hurt the Redwood to get wet as long as it can dry out. I would think that the bottom side of the ties where they are against the composit would be the only area of concern. I suggest not using anything that seals the wood as all that does is hold moisture in the wood. Use a good oil, stain isn’t really necessary as the Redwood will blacken naturally with age and weather exposure.

The copper green stuff I think is more for insect protection when wood is making ground contact. A thought, if your facia board has a rough/wood grain on one side use that side up it will allow better drying between it and the ties.

Have fun with your project.

edited for typos

Stay away from any type of Spruce. It breaks down rather quickly.

I cut one down on my property and stacked the bucks for future firewood to take camping.

Uncovered and exposed to the elements, it starts to punk up after a year or two.

I suggest not using anything that seals the wood as all that does is hold moisture in the wood. Use a good oil, stain isn’t really necessary as the Redwood will blacken naturally with age and weather exposure.

I agree with Rick. Re-applying stain every year or so will be a pain, and isn’t needed. I didn’t find it blackened - it turns grey. Our first house in Massachusetts was redwood and it was grey - turned out the drip edge was wrongly positioned (modern style - no gutters allowed,) so I bent it out and the house slowly turned brown over the course of a year. Note that the redwood was essentially soaked every time it rained until then, and the house was 20 years old when we bought it.

There are other sources of spikes (or were - I haven’t bought any for years!) I used those black ME spikes, and my redwood, from Stretch Manley in Oregon, had hard graining so I found pre-drilling was easier. Maybe I’m lazy. I had a very small cordless Dremel which made the drilling very quick and easy. But still a tedious pain-in-the-neck, so I resorted to buying plain track and making switches.

I guess you can make some 7/8ths scale track though?

Rick, The fascia board does have wood grain on one side but I’ve used the plain side on the rest so plan to continue.

John, I thought that about the spruce, hope the wings and fuselage on my plane stay protected by the epoxy varnish fabric and paint. If the new owner maintains it well he will be fine. I have other plans for some of that wood. It’s so beautiful, the 15’ spar boards had straight grain running the entire length of each piece.

Pete, I used Accucraft NG code 250 for the oval I started with and I’ve been cutting the webs to space the ties for a more NG look. I will do the same with the wood ties, only the rail will be larger. Too bad the Aristo rail doesn’t fit the A-craft ties, would save me a lot of work. I am not totally 7/8 so I don’t want to go too crazy with 2’ looking track. I originally was going to dual gauge the layout like my portables but I don’t think anyone with that type of equipment will visit like they did in NY. I’m using two SVRR dual gauge turnouts and may swap them for smaller, simpler ones since I only have one siding on the new layout. Years ago Kevin Strong and I made some for my garden line but I’d rather just buy them and be finished with it. Now, if you wanted to build two for me… one right and one left please.

Rain is in our forecast (YEA!! we need it) so I may try cutting the redwood into ties if I get chased inside with the storm. I’m interested to see how tough it might be to drive spikes. I have some HO track nails I use as rivets so I’ll try that first but I do have a cordless dremel, drill press, etc and tedium can be entertaining if the attitude is correct.

Thanks all for the great thoughts!! Tom

Tom,

I hand spike all my track into redwood or cedar. They both seem to last around the same length of time. I tend to toss out any ties that I can’t spike through. In other words, I have a huge pile of ties that I randomly grab from. When I got to spike the rail, I just grab a random tie. If the spike bends after the first hard push, I pull the tie out and throw it in the reject pile. 90% of the stuff you can spike through, but every once in a while you get a hard knot. I would recommend purchasing the Xuron spiking pliers as it will make life a lot easier. And yes I tried taking a old pair of needle nose pliers and etching a line to hold a spike, but could never get them to work as reliable as the Xuron ones.

I use Micro-Engineering 3/8" spikes.

As for stain, I’ve tried everything from used motor oil, to black leather shoe tie, to miniwax ebony stain, but they all eventually dry out and the ties grey. This year, one the new track that I’m building, I’m not staining anything but rather coating it with a layer of Rustoleum Camo Brown. And the only reason for that is I don’t like the look of shiny aluminum rail. I figure the ties will bleach in the sun just like normal.

Photo below shows a mix of naturally weathered ties (15 years old?) and new ties stained with Miniwax Ebony. This was last summer and they all look the same grey now.

Craig

Craig,

Just drifting the thread for a moment

Where do you get your spikes. I am embarking on hand built turnouts/points and have been using bent over brads to hold the rails to the ties/sleepers.

Back to the thread

For the sleepers I am using treated pine lattice and fence paling timber it is treated with Copper Chrome Arsenic (CCA) and if rot and termite resistant.

My layout is elevated with a fibre cement baseboard.

Construction recorded on my blog

https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

I buy direct from Micro Engineering as they are the only ones I can find that have 12,000 count (149.90). Lots of other online retailers carry the ME spikes but only in the 800 count pack (9.95).

The 3/8" are a lot easier find vs the 1/2" ones. I find the 3/8" ones look better to me.

Im still working through my first batch of 12,000 spikes some 12 years later but I just placed an order as I’m building the railroad out. I figure I get about 120-130’ of handlaying track or about 3000 ties.

Craig Townsend said:

I buy direct from Micro Engineering as they are the only ones I can find that have 12,000 count (149.90). Lots of other online retailers carry the ME spikes but only in the 800 count pack (9.95).

The 3/8" are a lot easier find vs the 1/2" ones. I find the 3/8" ones look better to me.

Im still working through my first batch of 12,000 spikes some 12 years later but I just placed an order as I’m building the railroad out. I figure I get about 120-130’ of handlaying track or about 3000 ties.

Craig,

What size rail are you using code250 or 332?

I am using 332

I use both 250 and 215. I really like 215 but i have a supply on hand of 250. Once that’s all used up and depending on how much more I need, I might go to 215. If I started over I would start with 215 or even lighter if I could find it…

Thanks Craig I am going to give the mediums a go with the 332 mainly because the longer ones I ordered were not out of stock.

Buying then from the US is not a viable option because of the cost of freight, when that is taken into a count I may as well just buy ready made.

This is a handy gadget for spiking rail.

http://www.switchcrafters.com/ez-catalog/X381875/16/TS375

When you run out, I dug into my wood box and found 10 C&OCRY ties [who remembers what that stands for?] Plus another few on the truck as a load, and some long strips I was using for switch ties. All surplus at this point.

California and Oregon Coast RR…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

If I were to ever build another layout, I would NEVER use wood ties again, anywhere. I used them quite a bit here in Northern Virginia, and EVERY year I was out there pounding them down again; true, it was mostly on switches and bridges, but WHAT A PAIN! I’ll take the plastic from now on.

Thanks Bruce, I have removed almost half the ties from the Accucraft flex track for a more back woods look so I could just purchase rail and use them. If so I would sell the Aristo track to help offset the expense. Never having hand laid track I thought this might be an opportunity to try it. I’m not attempting to achieve what Rick and Craig have done for sure.

Tom Bowdler said:

Thanks Bruce, I have removed almost half the ties from the Accucraft flex track for a more back woods look so I could just purchase rail and use them. If so I would sell the Aristo track to help offset the expense. Never having hand laid track I thought this might be an opportunity to try it. I’m not attempting to achieve what Rick and Craig have done for sure.

I LOVE the look of hand laid track. Just be aware of the maintenance…hehe…and perhaps it WILL be different depending on location (and material used) (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)