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  • Topic: Comparing Reefers...LGB/USTrains

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    • March 26, 2017 5:18 PM EDT
      • Santa Ana, CA
         
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      Seems like the height/width of the prototype cars could vary all over the place.

      Seems like you would want to measure something that was pretty much standardized, or easily researchable, like the width of the boards that comprise the body, and go by that.

    • March 26, 2017 5:49 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      I have a collection of the USAT billboard reefers.  If I squint just right, they measure out to 36 ft in 1:29.  I run them with my standard gauge stuff, and am quite satisfied.

       

      You forgot to add in the Bachmann reefers in the same "scale."

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      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • March 26, 2017 6:07 PM EDT
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Steve Featherkile said:

      I have a collection of the USAT billboard reefers.  If I squint just right, they measure out to 36 ft in 1:29.  I run them with my standard gauge stuff, and am quite satisfied.

       

      You forgot to add in the Bachmann reefers in the same "scale."

      And I have 1:24 Delton box cars that I converted to body mount Accucraft couplers and run them as "early" cars in my 1:20 trains. At one time I was going to change out the grab irons and stirrup steps, but they are so close it's not worth the effort as I forgot how to count rivets years ago. This was my inspiration...

      This post was edited by Jon Radder at March 26, 2017 6:25 PM EDT
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    • March 26, 2017 6:25 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      I just bought my very first Delton car today on Ebay - a Stroh's beer reefer. It should look OK with the rest of my USA Trains and LGB reefers, eh? Supposedly Delton rolling stock is 1:24 scale.

      This post was edited by Michael Kirrene at March 26, 2017 6:25 PM EDT
    • March 26, 2017 6:30 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Steve Featherkile said:

      I have a collection of the USAT billboard reefers.  If I squint just right, they measure out to 36 ft in 1:29.  I run them with my standard gauge stuff, and am quite satisfied.

       

      So I came to this board today thinking my USAT billboard reefers are 1:29. Then after more investigation and posts by others on this thread, I've found that they're actually 1:24. Which is it? I'm thinking that "EMD Trainmans" analysis above is correct, but...... 

       

    • March 26, 2017 6:44 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      And yet another good link that I'd saved previously showing reefers from various manufacturers:

      https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/lgb-vs-usa-reefers.301601/

    • March 26, 2017 8:11 PM EDT

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      Daktah John said:

      @Rooster - Yeah, it's a hobby and you are free not to obsess on scale.   I think the information Fred is seeking is interesting from a historical perspective of the development of Large Scale.

      Ok ...fair enough

    • March 26, 2017 10:42 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Yea Michael , the Delton reefers are about the same size.

       

      Delton Tiffany with a K-line (bachmann knock off) Heinz.

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    • March 26, 2017 11:43 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      Michael Kirrene said:
      Steve Featherkile said:

      I have a collection of the USAT billboard reefers.  If I squint just right, they measure out to 36 ft in 1:29.  I run them with my standard gauge stuff, and am quite satisfied.

       

      So I came to this board today thinking my USAT billboard reefers are 1:29. Then after more investigation and posts by others on this thread, I've found that they're actually 1:24. Which is it? I'm thinking that "EMD Trainmans" analysis above is correct, but...... 

       

      Michael, those billboard reefers from various manufacturers are definitelyNOT 1:29.  The rungs on the ladders are just too big and far apart, that's why I have to squint. 

       

      Serendipitously, they measure out to 36 feet long in 1:29.  36 ft billboard reefers where common along the standard gauge mainline in the 1920's and early 1930's.

      This post was edited by Steve Featherkile at March 27, 2017 3:43 PM EDT
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      Not only does my mind wander, sometimes it walks off completely.

       

      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • March 27, 2017 2:35 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Steve Featherkile said:
      Michael Kirrene said:
      Steve Featherkile said:

       

       

      Michael, those billboard reefers from various manufacturers are definitelyNOT 1:29.  Serendipitously, they measure out to 36 feet long in 1:29.  36 ft billboard reefers where common along the standard gauge mainline in the 1920's and early 1930's.

       

      Thanks for clarifying, Steve.  Yeah, I was referring specifically to the USAT wood-sided Billboard reefers.  

       

    • March 27, 2017 7:33 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Michael, I have a few of them, and even though the LGB Mogul is supposedly 1:22.5, and the reefers are 1:24, more or less, I think they make a good looking train together.

      Bringing up the markers is my Heartland 1:24 caboose.

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    • March 27, 2017 11:48 PM EDT
      • Powder Springs, GA
         
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      That's a fine looking train, David.  

    • March 28, 2017 12:27 AM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Sure is, David!

       

      I have an LGB 2019S and a 2028D  - one of which will be used to pull my USAT/LGB reefers. Was going to pull them with my upcoming USAT GP9 acquisition, but it wouldn't be prototypical would it? The reefers were made for Narrow Gauge in the 20's and 30's and EMD didn't start making the GP9 until 1954. I suppose though, that in 1954, there were still some wood-sided reefers being used on the railroads.

      This post was edited by Michael Kirrene at March 28, 2017 12:28 AM EDT
    • March 28, 2017 2:21 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      Billboard reefers were made illegal in 1934 by the ICC.

       

      From the Wiki... 1934: The Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) regulation #201 came into effect banning billboard advertisements on freight cars.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_car

       

      But who cares, I love them.

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      Not only does my mind wander, sometimes it walks off completely.

       

      Some people try to turn back their odometers.  Not me.  I want people to know why I look this way.  I've traveled a long way, and some of the roads weren't paved.  Will Rogers.

    • March 28, 2017 2:51 PM EDT
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      And regular reefer became regulated in 1906 by the Pure Food & Drug act, and made illegal by the 1932 version of the Uniform State Narcotic Act.

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    • March 28, 2017 3:20 PM EDT
      • Milpitas, California
         
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      Alcohol prohibition in the United States banned transportation and sale of alcoholic beverages from 1920 to 1933. Most of my reefers have alcohol in them, and as long as I don't transport vegetables and animals with pests across state lines, I'm good. It's the fruits and nuts that I'm worried about....

    • March 28, 2017 4:02 PM EDT
      • Ottawa/Nepean, Ontario, Canada
         
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      Thank you, everyone for contributing, to every ones knowledge of what we seem to, commonly call "The woodsided reefer". We are now starting to learn more about when, why, and how they were used in the rail transportation industry.

         The first start, was when the so called "Bill Board Cars" were banned, and why. Now we can creep into when the cars with wood under frames, and truss rods were banned in interchange service, then, when Arch bar trucks were banned.

         These further subjects do  help people who might care, find what equipment might be found in a train, behind what type/model of locomotive, at a certain time in history.

        To prevent anyone from getting the idea that anyone taking part in this thread, is trying to tell anyone what they can or cannot run in their trains......that is not in any way the idea of this discussion.     RUN WHAT YOU WANT, as long as you are having fun.

       Now.....if someone cares to look up the dates;  when were wooden under frames/truss rod equipped cars banned in interchange service ?

         ....then, when were arch bar trucks banned ?

          This information can help, for those that care, to choose what locomotives might be found in a train, and what modern equipment might be mixed in with the old wood sided cars. This includes cars other than reefers too.

        It is very seldom if ever, today, that you will find a wood sided car in interchange service.  Cars with truss rods, usually indicate wood under frames, won't be found in today's modern freight trains.  Arch bar trucks are banned too.

       Fred Mills

    • March 28, 2017 4:19 PM EDT
      • Ottawa/Nepean, Ontario, Canada
         
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      The reason for the banning of wood under frames, and archbar trucks, was because the heavier steel cars, were not compatible with the

      older, lighter cars.  The longer trains, with heavier equipment put too many stresses on the light cars. The archbar trucks started to fail  more and more in service due to their frail design, carrying heavier loads.

        Often older equipment could be seen in work service on company lines, but not interchange service, for many, many years after banning, even sometimes today, but they are soon scrapped when they need any major repairs. Few Railroad today have the work force, shops, or equipment to do any repairs on wooden  equipment, which is very prone to rotting.....dry rot, or other forms of decay.

        Fred Mills

    • March 28, 2017 6:32 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
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      Dec. 1939 Arch bar trucks were outlawed, there was a couple months grace period to do the deed.

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      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • March 28, 2017 7:12 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Archbar trucks were banned in interchange service, but they weren't outlawed. In fact, in the late 1990's, I photographed a mill flatcar that was still riding on archbar trucks.

       

      Wooden framed cars were eventually banned, because like Fred said, they couldn't handle the stresses of heavier trains. Wooden passenger cars were eventually banned in service because they could, and did, telescope in collision type accidents. Most regulations were actually enforced, or supposed to be enforced, by the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC), and as such, small railroads, that did not cross state lines, and private railroads, like logging railroads, did not fall under their jurisdiction.

       

      Since wood framed cars were banned, some wood-side cars were built after the ban, with steel under-frames and steel ends.

       

      By 1968, cast iron wheels were banned from interchange use because a certain make of them would crack. Also, cars built after 1968 IIRC had to be on roller bearing trucks.

       

      As for the earlier bans, I cannot seam to find the information.

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      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

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