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  • Topic: Hadrie Board/backer

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    • April 30, 2016 8:12 PM EDT

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      There are many different brands and types that people refer to as "hardy backer"... I have used the stuff with the very smooth finish, no fiberglas webbing visible, and sold as waterproof. It's more expensive than the stuff the Devon showed the picture of, and does not delaminate like the cheaper stuff that Kevin has experienced.

      My yard is made of it. It is on the ground supported by composite 2x4's about ever foot and a half. It's been out for years, untreated, and "cleaning the track" in the yard involves a garden hose and on a strong stream.

      Looks as good as the day I laid it... the key is the CHEAP stuff is NO GOOD for outside and the most expensive stuff is.

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    • April 30, 2016 9:42 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      All good advice.

       

      That's why I love this site. All in all I think I am leaning toward the PVC. It not that big of an area. 12' X 30" unless I expand its width a bit as Sean has suggested. Either way it will by far be the most extensive tack work in the layout with all the turnouts and therefor the most difficult to replace if it should go bad.

       

      I am convinced that the right cement board with the proper treatment would outlast me. But is there a better product, I am thinking so. I am still a young guy and believe myself to be permanently located. So I hope that I get a solid 30+ years out of this layout. Making choices now for the most permanent solutions makes sense. Especially on a part of the layout I would likely not mess with to many times. 

       

      Of course I am probably full of poop. I will probably rearrange it a hundred time (this summer) and will move in a year.

      This post was edited by Devon Sinsley at April 30, 2016 9:48 PM EDT
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    • May 1, 2016 8:11 AM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      and will move in a year.

      You better not. You have an open hose scheduled for next year.

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      Shannon car Shops
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      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

    • May 1, 2016 10:14 AM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      That's the third Sat in July. I will close on the fourth Sat.

       

      I actually got to thinking about this last night. I think I have found a way to way over engineer and way over complicate this process which will make the track and ladder system removable should I need to move or rearrange. 

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    • May 1, 2016 10:25 AM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Over engineer, thems words I like.

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      Shannon car Shops
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      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

    • May 1, 2016 11:16 AM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      David Maynard said:

      Over engineer, thems words I like.

      Let's all give credit to Daktah John's Department of Overengineering.

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    • May 1, 2016 1:25 PM EDT
      • Taos, NM
         
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      Greg is right about the difference in backer boards.  I've used both and discovered quickly the stuff with the webbing comes apart quickly.  The other that Greg uses holds up well and doesn't need painting unless one likes the aesthetics of it.  Sometimes it's a little harder to find.  HD and Lowes usually has it, but not always displayed with he cheaper webbed stuff.

       

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      Rich Niemeyer

      Taos & Chili Dust RR

    • May 1, 2016 4:53 PM EDT
      • Cape Cod,
         
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      MY Experience.   I have used the thicker 1/2 hardi backer board, painted,  as bases for buildings over gravel or on patio blocks and it holds up decent enough.  I had some of the 1/4 stuff as scrap so I tried it for a short retaining wall behind the RR in direct contact with dirt on one side and it became brittle and cracked up like in Kevin S's photo in about 2 years.

       

      I have been using the 1/4 backer board to make roof panels for my various buildings and painting them brown or black.  The material holds up well (so far) if it is not exposed to constant moisture.

      It is tough to cut and watch out for the dust. 

       

      I would think you could build a frame and use the 1/2 type painted with a exterior coat and it would give you years of use at half the cost of plywood.  

      Do remember that each time you put a screw into it to hold your track down you are creating a hole for water to get in.

    • May 1, 2016 9:57 PM EDT
      • Post Falls, Idaho
         
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      No matter what product I use it will have something applied to the surface of it. I want to have some sort of "dirt" for the yard but don't want dirt. I was thinking, if considering the cement board, to use the black tar foundation sealer and then add sand to it while wet to give the yard some texture. If I go PVC I will use paint and do the same thing.

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    • May 2, 2016 8:42 AM EDT
      • Cape Cod,
         
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       Whatever you use for texture Devon be sure to glue it down well.  In my main yard which is a bench with a plywood top I sprinkled aquarium gravel all over it which looked good but every time it rained it would go all over the place and get into the switches. 

       

      If you go with the hardibacker surface or plywood you could get a roll of rolled roofing and put that on to give some texture and protection for your base.   Do remember to seal the screw holes when you put down the track.

    • May 2, 2016 10:51 AM EDT
      • Taos, NM
         
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      Todd, how do you get the roofing felt to drain after rain/snow? I plan to put down landscape fabric over hardware cloth in order to allow for drainage on my new elevated layout. Surface on top of the landscape fabric will be scoria (volcanic cinder fines), which will drain well as well. The biggest issue for me will be wind, moving the surface material around.
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      Rich Niemeyer

      Taos & Chili Dust RR

    • May 2, 2016 12:06 PM EDT
      • Saint Helena, CALIFORNIA
         
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      Rich:

       

      I have no experience with Mulch-Lock but I am thinking about using it indoors to hold my ballast instead of white glue or matte medium.  Perhaps it would be something to consider for your cinder fines.

      This post was edited by Mark Hadler at May 2, 2016 12:07 PM EDT
    • May 2, 2016 12:50 PM EDT
      • Taos, NM
         
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      Mark,  I'll look it up.  Not sure how much different it is from landscape fabric.  But I'll see what I can find out.

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      Rich Niemeyer

      Taos & Chili Dust RR

    • May 2, 2016 9:01 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Rolled roofing and roofing felt are 2 different things. Roofing felt is essentially tar paper. Rolled roofing is thicker, with granules on it, just like asphalt shingles, only its a roll instead of individual shingles. Water will not drain through roll roofing, so you would need to build in a slope for run off. However, a slope would also tend to allow any added material to wash off too.

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      Shannon car Shops
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    • May 2, 2016 9:33 PM EDT
      • Taos, NM
         
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      Yeh, I understand that David. Todd's suggestion was to use rolled roofing, I think, on top of a wooden or concrete backer board deck to keep ballast material better in place. I was asking how he might get rain/snow to drain off or through the decking...hence why I am using landscape fabric that allows water to drain through. I was just wondering how Todd does it.
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      Rich Niemeyer

      Taos & Chili Dust RR

    • May 2, 2016 9:49 PM EDT
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      Ok, you just called it roofing felt in your post, so I thought, that you thought, that roofing felt and rolled roofing were the same thing. Now I think that my thinker has thought too much since my head hoits.....

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      Shannon car Shops
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      and King Butt Modeler

    • May 2, 2016 10:58 PM EDT
      • Southern Oregon
         
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      Something to keep in mind, any time you place a non- porous material like rolled roofing over a solid deck like plywood, backer board, cement, metal or anything else you will have moisture issues.  Any leaking or seeping water will be trapped and not be able to dry out and additional moisture will be generated by condensation during temperature changes.

      Rich,

      I think you are on the right track with your plans.  I will add that early on I tried using ¼ minus cinder fines for fill and found I really didn’t like them.  Rain and wind moved them around and don’t even think about using the leaf blower to clear pine needles and leaves from the tables .  Even though they drain very well in a rain, a freeze does interesting things with them.

      You'r tables are looking good, keep us posted.

      Rick

    • May 3, 2016 1:10 PM EDT
      • Taos, NM
         
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      Thanks Rick.  Actually you're right.  After thinking about it for awhile, I've decided to use crusher fines instead of the cinders.  The crusher fines will settle better and not move around much.  I'll still use the cinders perhaps around a few structures, and perhaps a siding yard that's a bit protected.  I'll need to add a few nailers under the benchwork in order to prevent the hardware cloth from sagging too much due to the added weight of the crusher fines, but not much of a problem.  

      Now that I've figured out how to FINALLY post pictures, I will post more as things progress.  Taking a short break for a trip to St. Louis and the Smoky Mountains.  And a quick run to Phoenix.  I'll be back at it in a week or so.  Anxious to get track down.

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      Rich Niemeyer

      Taos & Chili Dust RR

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