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    • June 20, 2020 8:42 PM EDT
    • Jon Radder said:

      Thanks Roo.  Yes, that is where it is. Location was mentioned in the Facebook post.

       

      And yes, Indiana is Kovalchicks's and about half way between Mt. Union and Dubois.   Salone probably doesn't figure in as this has been listed missing long before he and EBTPA got involved.  But he should be a suspect just based on his personality!

       

       

       

      I don't do Facebook ....just did a bit of quick digging on the subject as you know I love my history.

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

    • June 20, 2020 7:42 PM EDT
    • Thanks Roo.  Yes, that is where it is. Location was mentioned in the Facebook post.

       

      And yes, Indiana is Kovalchicks's and about half way between Mt. Union and Dubois.   Salone probably doesn't figure in as this has been listed missing long before he and EBTPA got involved.  But he should be a suspect just based on his personality!

    • June 20, 2020 2:51 PM EDT
    • https://doolittlestation.com/index.php

       

      Pretty sure this is where the car currently resides. A lot of interesting cars there ... 

       

      BTW...Don't know if this plays factor but Larry Salone is from DuBois and Kovalchick had locations in Homer City and Indiana,PA which are just south of DuBois.

      Just saying.

    • June 20, 2020 1:08 PM EDT
    • David - I think you misunderstood the sentiment in Pete's "it should be returned".  I don't think he means that the present owner should give it back, but that perhaps in the future, when this use is no longer needed, that it come back to EBT rather than be moved yet again or scraped.  There are precious few surviving examples of flat cars remaining and this one is unique in that it served as a standard gauge gondola in Mt. Union.

       

      There is already an effort underway by people associated with the EBTF and FEBT to further examine the car and speak with the current owner whose name is known.

       

      @Pete: Although Kovalchick is a scrap dealer he was careful of what stock he sold off and never scrrped any native rolling stock. True, there may not be records of every disposition, but a lot of people, some outside the RR/scrap dealer have been keeping close tabs on the entire inventory for many years.  The fact that one of these persons list the car as "disappeared during 522 construction" and knowing this same person had close contact with the owners and general manager of the RR at the time, leads me to speculate that the removal was not something the RR or Kovalchick were aware of.

       

      I'm pretty sure we will know the real story shortly.  My guess is that it was commandeered by a collector during the 522 construction, held for a number of years, and then sold to the gentleman who runs the restaurant.  If that turns out to be true, the railroad could make a legal claim for the car, but knowing the people who are in charge today, that's not likely to happen. They are just not that kind of people. And I mean that in a good way.

       

      What makes this a hot topic at this time is that the railroad is sorely in need of flat cars to transport ties and good ballast hoppers for the rebuild. In order to alleviate some of the shortages they have moved hoppers that haven's moved since the 60's and removed the superstructure from the Carowins cars in order to use them as flats.

    • June 20, 2020 1:01 PM EDT
    • Maybe the owners of the EBT or the Friends group could offer to build a new seating platform in exchange for the return of the car.

    • June 20, 2020 12:46 PM EDT
    • I'd need to disagree with that Pete. If it was fairly purchased, and quite possibly with it's present use in mind, the owner has  every right to do with it as he wishes including destroying it if he/she sees fit. IMHOYMMV

    • June 20, 2020 12:13 PM EDT
    • Certainly possible it was legitimate.  The current owners have all of the meticulous records kept by the RR

      The owners at the time were/are scrap metal merchants, (and the car has a steel underframe,) so it may have sold it at the time the road work was done. It's not clear their "meticulous" records include what was scrapped, sold, disposed off, bought, since the actual RR was sold to them.

       

      I think it should be returned to EBT!

       

    • June 19, 2020 10:42 PM EDT
    • This is interesting!

    • June 19, 2020 6:34 AM EDT
    • Well we can be thankful that this piece of history isn't "missing" as in cut up for scrap, but is "missing" as in preserved somewhere.

    • June 18, 2020 6:56 PM EDT
    • David Marconi,FOGCH said:

      Not Knowing, but is it possible that it was sold by the then owner of the EBT ? Further thought, maybe moved because of the road work after the standard gauge track was off loaded, then sold as opposed to relocating to another site. Just let it fall off the books as time passed.

      Certainly possible it was legitimate.  The current owners have all of the meticulous records kept by the RR even into tourist years. If there is info in there they will find it eventually. Most transfers of stock were, however, well known and documented. This one is the only one where disposition is listed as "missing" by those outside the RR who track such things.

    • June 18, 2020 6:53 PM EDT
    • Sean McGillicuddy said:

      I've come home ( I close out / cleanup ) stone,ladders,plants wood,sand etc.. but no flat car ..hhmmmm

      My former landlord's late husband was in construction in NYC. When I bought the house and began cleaning up I found all kinds of odd things squirreled away. How about a bundle of 25 axe handles, or those huge diameter ropes you saw hanging in my early basement make-over pics

      Size/weight didn't seem to be an issue for him. There is a piece of "subway" marble in the storage area under my porch that is so big I can't move it!

    • June 18, 2020 6:48 PM EDT
    • Thanks David.  Lots of stuff there to wade through, but it looks like the approvals were coming in for the work in the mid to late 80's.

       

      Oh - I'll fix my typo - I meant to type 522.

    • June 18, 2020 6:19 PM EDT
    • Not Knowing, but is it possible that it was sold by the then owner of the EBT ? Further thought, maybe moved because of the road work after the standard gauge track was off loaded, then sold as opposed to relocating to another site. Just let it fall off the books as time passed.

    • June 18, 2020 6:18 PM EDT
    • I've come home ( I close out / cleanup ) stone,ladders,plants wood,sand etc.. but no flat car ..hhmmmm

    • June 18, 2020 5:52 PM EDT
    • I can't quickly locate the year it was done, however, at least 9 years ago (more likely 20+ years ago) PENDOT did some major work on PA Route 522 through Mt. Union PA.  Prior to that work being done, EBT Flat #106 was resting in Mt Union fitted with standard gauge trucks. This picture of 106 doing standard gauge duty in the Mt. Union yard taken by Philip R. Hasting was posted on Facebook by Kevin Moore...

       

      According to Chris Colemen's website Old Eastie, Flat 106 existed in Mt. Union on standard gauge trucks, but went missing during work on PA Route 522.

       

      Low and behold, Kevin Moore also posted to Facebook these photos of a steel flat car labeled for EBT bearing the number 106 and looking very correct for an EBT steel flat on standard gauge trucks being used as outdoor seating at a restaurant....

       

       

      All of this begs the question of how the heck did an EBT car "disappear" from Mt. Union only to be re-appear years later in Dubois, PA ????  Moving this car even a few blocks would have required either a crane or a low-boy with track. Either one of those operations would be difficult to hide UNLESS there was major road construction happening at the same time.

       

      Note that dual gauge track was removed, and then replaced where it crosses 522 in Mt. Union. Perhaps 106 was 'in the way' and legitimately moved but somehow never was put back.  Gee, imagine that, construction workers bringing things home from the job. Never happens

       

      EDIT to add historical photo credit.

      Second EDIT to fix route #.

    • June 20, 2020 6:43 PM EDT
    • Man that is sad to lose a structure like that.

    • June 20, 2020 6:12 PM EDT
    • The V&T Mound House depot was built in 1879. With the rise of the Carson & Colorado (sister RR to the V&T), and the need for a bigger depot in Mound House, the fairly new depot was moved a few miles down the road to Dayton in 1881 to serve the C&C customers there. 

       

      Over recent decades, the depot has been a private residence. But a few years back, the Dayton historical folks bought it, and began to restore it. Being originally a V&T building, and so near by, the V&T historical society has been a supporter of the work as well.

       

      Last Wednesday, someone decided it would be a good idea to burn the place down. And they did. Here's the article. It's quite a punch in the gut to folks who care about the C&C, the V&T, and Dayton NV history.

       

      [EDIT] Here's a link to info on the depot, reflecting things as they stood before Wednesday.

       

      Cliff

    • June 18, 2020 4:53 AM EDT
    • Eric Mueller said:

      GAP,

       

      More great insight into cane trains!  Makes me wonder what our would look like if we hadn't torn up the rails ( Stupid trucks...) and built over the fields. 

       

      Eric

      Same thing is happening here as sugar is becoming non viable, farmers are either sub dividing their farms for housing for moving to new crops Macadamias are big here.

    • June 18, 2020 3:30 AM EDT
    • GAP,

       

      More great insight into cane trains!  Makes me wonder what our would look like if we hadn't torn up the rails ( Stupid trucks...) and built over the fields. 

       

      Eric