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  • Topic: Interesting USAT chatter on FB

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    • November 10, 2019 11:15 PM EST
      • Port Orchard, Washington
         
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      Don't you know EMD stands for Every Model Different? 

    • November 10, 2019 11:39 PM EST
      • Outpost of Obscurity, Alaska
         
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      Ted ,
      It should have read "the Bulldog as we remember it started with the F3."  I couldn't point all the exact diffenences besides the headlight and door but there are several imporvments that EMD made to the nose after the inital FT's.  The disertation I remember this from was over 20 years ago and involved beer between tours at a convention.
      If you can find a copy of the "Northern Pacific: DIesel era" by Schrenk and Frey, there are a lot of comparisions between the different models and some of the why's.
      Paul
      Ted Doskaris said:

      Thank you Paul,

      It seems the FT freight locomotive of 1939 which proceeded the F2/F3,etc. would be considered as having the first "Bull Dog" nose - albeit with its pilot slightly different and petit side mounted number boards.

       

       

    • November 11, 2019 12:02 PM EST

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      David Maynard said:
      Greg Elmassian said:

      A little surprised to see posts like yours David, the road names are listed, and not in production yet, so it will be many moons before more road names are added if ever. Kinda don't see the point.

       

      http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainslocof7.html

       

      One surprising thing, the chrome Santa Fe units are same price as painted models. The Aristo chrome E8's and the USAT chrome F3's all had a higher price for the more expensive plating process.

       

      Well, if the price holds steady, I might just get some more, although I do have a 7 unit F3 consist already... oh the pain, the pain (my pocketbook groaning)

       

      Greg

       

       

      Greg, it was kinda like a joke, since Penn Central is offensive to so many people. There was one guy at a train show on the verge of punching me, because I was running a pair of HO PC F7s. He was really torqued off.

      ——————-

      David, you and your mating worms locos!

    • November 11, 2019 1:09 PM EST
      • San Mateo, California
         
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      Electro-Motive's FT & Evolutions

      Paul said:
      Ted ,
      It should have read "the Bulldog as we remember it started with the F3."  I couldn't point all the exact diffenences besides the headlight and door but there are several imporvments that EMD made to the nose after the inital FT's.  The disertation I remember this from was over 20 years ago and involved beer between tours at a convention.
      If you can find a copy of the "Northern Pacific: DIesel era" by Schrenk and Frey, there are a lot of comparisions between the different models and some of the why's.
      Paul
      Ted Doskaris said:

      Thank you Paul,

      It seems the FT freight locomotive of 1939 which proceeded the F2/F3,etc. would be considered as having the first "Bull Dog" nose - albeit with its pilot slightly different and petit side mounted number boards.

       

       

      Paul, Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
       
      I don't have the "Northern Pacific: Diesel era" book cited, but I do have three books about the EMD F units.  These books describe the evolution of the F unit, though maybe not to the exact detail that may be in NP book.

       

      Book 1:
      Title, "F Units The diesels that did it" by Jeff Wilson, ISBN: 0-89024-374-3, page 5 states:

      "...The FT looked more blue-collar and business like. The bulldog nose wasn't as slanted and sleek as EMC's contemporary E4 passenger engine, and the FT looked more compact and powerful....The Electro-Motive Corporation became the Electromotive Division of General Motors in January 1941..."



      Book 2:
      Title, "General Motors' F-Units" by Daniel J. Mulhearn and John R. Taibi, ISBN-0-915276-39-9, pages 5-6 states about the FT:

       '...Architecturally, the famous "bull dog" nose appeared on the cab units; it was a visage that would emerge from the La Grange womb for nearly two decades....Post war evolution of the F-unit brought forth model F2, an interim successor to the FT design before the F3 was mass produced at a rate of up to seventy per month'

       

      Book 3:
      Title, "Electro-Motive E-Units and F-Units" by Brian Solomon, ISBN 978-0-7603-4007-3, page 62 states about the FT:

      Also described in this book is the use of plywood side panels! - as stated:
      "Covering the trusses were side panels made from plywood sheets 3/8 inch thick and sandwiched within thin sheet steel" .... "As with the E-Unit, the FT cab was elevated to provide a better forward view and a safer place to ride.  The rounded bulldog nose was a refinement of the more slanted nose on the early E-units ....Interestingly, the bulldog nose's compound curves connecting the sheet steel with the headlight housing were sculpted from automotive bonding putty..."



      Thanks again,
      -Ted

       

      This post was edited by Ted Doskaris at November 12, 2019 12:53 AM EST
    • November 15, 2019 3:26 PM EST
      • Gig Harbor, WA
         
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      Just ran across this website.  http://www.trainweb.org/jfuhrtrain/CF7frames/F7Phases/F7phase.html   Looks like USA will go with a phase I to me.

      ____________________________________

      Paul Burch

      Sierra Cascade & Pacific RR

    • November 15, 2019 3:52 PM EST

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      a nice compendium of data, but wish he had more pictures and they would expand, they are very small.

       

      for us neophytes, pictures would help a lot as opposed to text.

       

      Example, the horizontal and vertical grills look similar, in fact the phase 2 vertical grill has more prominent horizontal components.

       

      Greg

       

      (I had that link on my web site already under Santa Fe prototype info, F unit phases)

       

      This post was edited by Greg Greg Elmassian at November 15, 2019 4:00 PM EST
      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • November 15, 2019 5:18 PM EST
      • Elverta, CA
         
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      Nice CHART Paul, makes it easy to discern the evolution of the F units. I agree Greg, more/better pictures would help. If you dig through numerous publications you can find photo documentation of all the changes thought-out the years (been there).

       

      It will be interesting to see where USAT goes with the intake grilles, my monies on vertical, BUT I'd prefer they provided horizontal grilles.

       

      Anybody seen a chart for the evolution of the Gp7's > GP9? I've spent many hours researching and taking notes herein too. SP was all about the GP9.

       

      Michael

    • November 15, 2019 6:10 PM EST

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      Not on the evolution, but I have some notes on my site, when I tried to figure out if the USAT model was closer to a 7 or 9:

       

      I put some of what I found here:  https://elmassian.com/index.php/large-scale-train-main-page/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/gp7

       

      Greg

      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • November 15, 2019 6:30 PM EST
      • Gig Harbor, WA
         
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      One more link that has some good info.  F unit info on page 2.   http://www.trainweb.org/willstrainart/EMD_line2.htm

      The reason I think that USA will do a phase I is that the USA drawing shows horizontal grills and a roof overhang.  With Phase II the grills were vertical and no roof overhang.  I think they will just reuse the original shell with some detail changes.  

      This post was edited by Paul Burch at November 15, 2019 6:39 PM EST
      ____________________________________

      Paul Burch

      Sierra Cascade & Pacific RR

    • January 22, 2020 2:08 PM EST
      • Gig Harbor, WA
         
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      I have been meaning to post these for awhile.  I have installed vertical chrome grilles on my F3's.  I purchased these from a friend who also posts on this forum. I will leave it up to him if he wants to elaborate on who the manufacturer is/was.  Anyway I think they look great and might give an idea on how the new USA units may look.  I do need to go back and square off the roof ends at some point.

       

      This post was edited by Paul Burch at January 23, 2020 11:42 AM EST
      ____________________________________

      Paul Burch

      Sierra Cascade & Pacific RR

    • January 22, 2020 3:33 PM EST
      • Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
         
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      At looks so much better.

      ____________________________________

      Shannon car Shops
      Home of the infamous leg lamp

      I.A.R.R.R. Member #12

      and King Butt Modeler

    • January 22, 2020 6:30 PM EST
      • Candlewood Valley, Connecticut
         
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      Beauitiful Units Paul. The grilles are really nice and look super in that scheme. Is that the "Black Widow" scheme?

      ____________________________________

      www.cvsry.com www.cvsry.com

    • January 22, 2020 6:43 PM EST
      • Gig Harbor, WA
         
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      Jon,

      Yes, that is Black Widow.  Later on units were painted in scarlet and gray.  USA trains has one painted in Daylight colors but S.P. never had any F units in Daylight colors.  It would be nice when USA releases the new units if they made the Farr grilles available as a part but I kind of doubt they will. It probably would cut into their sales on the new units.

      ____________________________________

      Paul Burch

      Sierra Cascade & Pacific RR

    • January 23, 2020 11:59 AM EST
      • St-Jerome, Quebec
         
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      Paul,

      I admit it. I just felt in love by seeing your SP SD40-2T #8303! Looks great with the SP-styled nose lights package and cab's roof-mounted devices.

    • January 24, 2020 4:41 PM EST
      • Salida, CO
         
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      Very nice, Paul. Glad to see you're still in the game.


      Cheers,

      Matt

    • January 24, 2020 6:39 PM EST
      • Gig Harbor, WA
         
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      Thanks Matt,

       

      Since this thread is mainly about the new upcoming USA F units, I do have one more thing to add.   I wonder if they will correct the location of the brake cylinders on the new units.   They are set outside of the axles so that they will clear the ladders on tight curves.  Should be just inside the axles.   I'm betting they didn't find the problem until late in the manufacturing process and the modified cylinder was their answer.   This was accomplished by extending the arm.  If you look at a GP7,GP38-2 or GP30 you will see the difference.   The GP's are correct.  I ordered new cylinders like those on  the GP's for my F units and made a small mod to the sideframes so the cylinders are a little more snug to the sideframe.   They will now clear the ladders on a 5' radius curve with the cylinders in the correct location. Take a look at the last photo  in my post and compare to a stock USA F unit.

      USA drawing of new F7 still showing wrong location.

      http://www.usatrains.com/r22380.html

      This post was edited by Paul Burch at January 24, 2020 7:24 PM EST
      ____________________________________

      Paul Burch

      Sierra Cascade & Pacific RR

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