Forums General Prototypes
  • Topic: NSRM, V&T transfer car, swing trucks, and misc.

    Back To Topics
    (0 rates)
    • October 14, 2019 9:39 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      NSRM, V&T transfer car, swing motion trucks, and misc.

      This is day 8 of my 15-day CA/NV annual trip. Though this afternoon was mainly spent doing laundry, and after just dining at the casino restaurant and feeling like the python who's eaten his monthly pig, a whole lot happened earlier that I'd like to share with my buddies here.

       

      I went to NV State RR Museum (NSRM) this morning and enjoyed their recently-produced display relating to the Promontory sesquicentennial. They have the Inyo and Dayton opposing one another. Both have "acted" in Prom recreations, with Dayton (having been built by CP and near that time) being well suited for CP 119. 

       

       

       

       

      However, V&T coach 19 was actually at the original Prom, because it was an important CP coach at that time. My understanding is that this is the only surviving piece of rolling railroad equipment from Promontory in 1869. Lots of work to do on it, but it's at least undergoing extensive stabilizing (I've heard the term "arrested decay") measures. Checked out the stuffed woodpecker, some relative of which made all those holes to stuff acorns into. Also notice the huge map on the floor, where you walk the CP/UP transcon line. 

       

       

       

       

      Another CP-built piece from around the era is this outside-framed box car, which is so cool. The two doors on either side allow the opening to be either fully closed, ventilated, or fully open. The end doors can be half-opened for more ventilation, all while ensuring that any critter is retained. I really want to build a model of this some day.

       

       

       

      Final piece on special display is a typical rail-delivery car. This is a recreation based on real V&T hardware and a rebuilt frame, and was the style used for the CP. With the rails being laid at up to 10 miles a day, I wondered how they got the empty delivery cars out of the way. But as I read a few months ago, the answer was simple: a crew just picked the car up and carried it back to the end of the delivery car chain.

       

       

       

      My next objective was to inquire about maps of Mound House trackage (and surroundings) that are earlier than 1916. I know, very obscure topic, but it has to do with my next big model project. Can't go into it right now, but I will soon. So I went to the curator's office, the curator being Wendell Huffman, great guy and immensely knowledgeable, who is a co-member in the V&T society. He took the time to root through records and maps, an let me photograph what he found. Not quite early enough, but the chase is on, and several people are now involved. Anyway, here's a pic of one of the enormous blueprints he unrolled or unfolded. This "station map" is from the SP, who took over the C&C which retained an interchange with the V&T at Mound House. Most of the vertical trackage is V&T. Notice the buildings at bottom left made of one or more "car bodies."

       

       

       

       

      My next objective was to hopefully learn about the reconstruction of the V&T locomotive transfer car. This was a super heavy duty (for its day) flat car, and Wendell gave a big talk about it at the conference. Here's Wendell, next to some of its truck parts. 

       

       

       

       

      The trucks and bolsters are especially complicated, in that they were designed to handle a far heavier load than usual. They're completely taken apart here, each piece undergoing repair & painting. I'd like to share photos of these parts with you, and (unless I mention otherwise) they are for just one truck. I'm going to be using my limited vocabulary, so bear with me. BTW, a new LSC member, David, was interested in this particular car, and I hope these photos will be helpful.

       

      Here's the wheels & axles.

       

       

       

       

      Next, the main truck beams. They install 90 degrees from what you see (the upper flat surfaces will be vertical). Please don't ask me how these go together...

       

       

       

       

      These are swing motion trucks, with the springs seen below. The beams atop them are involved in that parallelogram somehow (they'll mount vertically).  

       

       

       

       

      Again, those parts are for just one truck. Here are more parts for the same truck, with the suspension links at the upper left. The thick pins are the main pivot axles for the swing motion. I don't know how the flat iron braces go on, but I believe they compose the side frames of the truck.

       

       

       

       

      These are the journals for the whole car; 1 set of 4 is for the truck I'm describing. If I'm not mistaken, these bolt to the side frame flat bars above.

       

       

       

       

       

      Here's the body bolster. It's huge! And it's basically 2 normal iron body bolsters (composed of upper and lower forged bars and cast thimbles between) and a thick plate between them that supports the king pin / bearing. Behind it is the other body bolster, upside-down.

       

       

       

       

      The body sills and other beams are being completed, and the original pieces are laid next to them as reference. In the foreground are all the other fittings, now sandblasted and ready for painting. As you can see, the museum doesn't have huge facilities! 

       

       

       

       

      My final objective was to photograph hardware details of V&T flat cars. The museum has a string of decrepit flats that generally have hardware that is more visible than usual.

       

       

       

       

      So, for future reference, I took a bunch of shots like this:

       

       

       

       

      Then I noticed something about a truck. Because of its linkage, I was able to put together what was I was told earlier about swing motion trucks. At the hotel restaurant a couple nights ago, one former and one current museum curator tried to get it into my head how the swing motion truck worked. That discussion started with talk about my derrick model, and my statement that its springs were removed and blocked. One of the gentlemen said, "Well, it might have been a swing motion truck." But honestly, none of that stuck in my head. However, when I noticed the links on this truck this morning, I began to get what they described. The bottom ends of the links are visible just above the rail.

       

       

       

       

      So I now understand that my derrick trucks might seriously suck.  (But the old photos aren't clear enough to prove it had swing trucks yet -- until a pro examines them -- so I hope he doesn't, haha!)  Regardless, I was excited to finally see how this worked. But instead of doing a bunch more vague pics, I tried my hand at a video-explanation, and here it is, goofups and all! 

       

       

       

       

      After all that, I went to the Rock Point Mill in nearby Dayton, very cool. Comstock-era ruins of a mill having 8 5-stamp groups.

       

       

       

       

      On the way back to a hotel I stopped at an antique/junk store, and a "gold scale" caught my eye. The shop owner said that though it was hand made (I had expressed some suspicion), it had been there from the original shop owner's stock, and was certainly not a repro. He came down from $125 to $85 without asking. So though it might well be a repro, it looks real, and I'm happy with the price either way. (Well, especially if it were real, haha!)

       

       

       

       

      While doing laundry back at the hotel, I checked out my winnings at the conference's silent auction. Being a V&T ephemera collector, I was happy to snag a V&T payroll record (based on loco number) from 1878 and a Carson City station map from 1916. I think I got those for $45 and $35. 

       

       

       

       

      But my favorite was the "mystery gift basket." The donor was late to show up and put it down, and I'm afraid I was one of the few to notice what was in it. So I put down $20, but no one else covered. And I didn't really know what was in it until it was explained to me by the donor.

       

       

       

       

      Going clockwise: A neat wood crate; a (new) wooden pail with 2 kinds of sausage and a coil of rope; two huge bottles of beer I've never heard of (I'm test driving one of them now), a pair of oyster shells, a bag of square nails and a bottle -- the latter three all dug up from the Sutro site we visited yesterday! (The donor helps run that operation, so all legit and provenanced). Now, I call that a man's gift basket, woo hoo!

       

      OK, done for the day. Thanks for viewing my meandering travelogue,

       

      ===>Cliffy

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at October 20, 2019 2:13 AM EDT
    • October 14, 2019 11:09 PM EDT
      • Pleasanton, CA
         
      • Posts
        1,188
      • Thanks
        1,382
      • Thanked
        927

      Cliff Jennings said:

       Another CP-built piece is the outside-framed box car, which is so cool. The two doors on either side allow the opening to be either fully closed, ventilated, or fully open. The end doors can be half-opened for more ventilation, all while ensuring that any critter is retained. I really want to build a model of this some day.

       

       

       

       

      Ooh ooh! I want to make one of these too! Nice find!

       

    • October 14, 2019 11:30 PM EDT
      • Southern Oregon
         
      • Posts
        1,961
      • Thanks
        512
      • Thanked
        1,016

      Cliff,

      Very good video on the swing motion, discribed it well.

      Bruce MacGregor's book "The Birth of the California Narrow Gauge" has some 

      good write-ups and drawings on swing motion's if your interested in more information.

      But ya have to dig for it, the book is like 700 pages

    • October 14, 2019 11:43 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      Jim Rowson said:
      Cliff Jennings said:

       Another CP-built piece is the outside-framed box car, which is so cool. The two doors on either side allow the opening to be either fully closed, ventilated, or fully open. The end doors can be half-opened for more ventilation, all while ensuring that any critter is retained. I really want to build a model of this some day.

       

       

       

       

      Ooh ooh! I want to make one of these too! Nice find!

       

      Isn't it fun? Glad you like it as well as I do, Jim!

       

      If you're interested, you can read its story and get a scale drawing in this booklet by the V&T HS:

      http://www.vtrrhs.org/book-03-wooden-box-cars.html

       

       

    • October 15, 2019 11:33 AM EDT
      • Easton , Massachusetts
         
      • Posts
        4,636
      • Thanks
        2,262
      • Thanked
        647

      Didn't Bruce make one like this ?

      http://www.jbrr.com/ventilated.html

      This post was edited by Sean McGillicuddy at October 15, 2019 11:36 AM EDT
      ____________________________________

       My u-tube  My Vimeo

      The light in the tunnel might not be an engine , but a light in the caboose of my own train on my Roundy Round Rail Road !    My empire is complete...I think...

    • October 15, 2019 11:45 AM EDT
      • Rio Linda, Cal.
         
      • Posts
        1,703
      • Thanks
        26
      • Thanked
        125

      Very Very interesting Cliff.  Thanks for the post. 

      ____________________________________



      Little Rio feather says...One leave train running here and takes a coffee break, may find Koi fishes checking out how deep an Engine can swim when the Swing Bridge is left open. It happen to Big Feather Tweedledum.... Burnt finger Nbr. SA#49
                 Our Video's

    • October 15, 2019 12:01 PM EDT
      • Fort Myers Beach & Annapolis, Florida & Maryland
         
      • Posts
        2,610
      • Thanks
        112
      • Thanked
        550

      Great stuff Cliff.  I had to figure out the swing motion on the trucks on the EBT M-1 Railcar when we were trying to make a model kit.

      two huge bottles of beer I've never heard of

      Well, I have heard of one of them, which is readily available in MD.  The left hand one is a full UK pint of Samual Smiths Tadcaster Brewery Oatmeal Stout.  My wife drinks it for lunch.  The other one is Belgian, and I've heard of it but never tried one.

       

      ____________________________________

       

        Pete

    • October 15, 2019 12:04 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      I received an email from a VT society / museum friend who I'd sent the video to for comment. He was very polite, but I don't think I got a single term right!  And it turns out that particular flat in the string belonged to the Sierra Nevada Wood & Lumber Co... but he said overall it was "pretty good" (like I said, he's very polite).  And he sent me a couple pages from the Car Builders Dictionary that explain the terms and mechanism. [link]

       

       

    • October 15, 2019 12:11 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      Sean McGillicuddy said:

      Didn't Bruce make one like this ?

      http://www.jbrr.com/ventilated.html

       

      Thanks for the link Sean, I didn't know Bruce made that. Beautiful car!

       

      I guess the diff with the V&T version is that it's quite older (e.g., link & pin couplers), and has the inside-out framing.  

    • October 15, 2019 12:13 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      Pete Thornton said:

      Great stuff Cliff.  I had to figure out the swing motion on the trucks on the EBT M-1 Railcar when we were trying to make a model kit.

      two huge bottles of beer I've never heard of

      Well, I have heard of one of them, which is readily available in MD.  The left hand one is a full UK pint of Samual Smiths Tadcaster Brewery Oatmeal Stout.  My wife drinks it for lunch.  The other one is Belgian, and I've heard of it but never tried one.

       

      Thanks Pete, I had that oatmeal stout yesterday and can say there were a couple sandwiches in that bottle, haha!

    • October 15, 2019 6:02 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      A little addendum, I went to Fort Churchill today, it's an hour east of Carson. Neat place: old army fort in the desert, building ruins arranged around a 1/4-mile square military quad. Campground there, lots of trees along teh Carson River. Lots of trails, including the mile-long rectangle around the fort.

       

       

       

      The railroady connection is that the SP tracks run through it all, and there's a trail that follows it.

       

       

       

       

      I got out of the car to take a couple of shots of the track.

       

       

       

       

      And at that very moment, I saw this guy coming up in the opposite direction.

       

       

       

      ===>Cliffy

       

    • October 15, 2019 8:23 PM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
      • Posts
        5,436
      • Thanks
        1,977
      • Thanked
        1,368

      Terms Not: inside/outside bracing 

      try: inside and outside sheathing

      Customers could order either way depending on their lading. 

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • October 15, 2019 9:57 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      John, I'm just a messenger in that car's regard, so please feel free to contact and correct the NSRM folks who refer to this as the "the outside braced combination boxcar." 

       

       

      For myself, I can't quite imagine that the CP, in the 1870's, would have so many customers (other than themselves and the V&T) to compel them to offer entirely different sets of hardware that accommodated an internal vs an external sheathing for this particular kind of ventilated car. Other box cars emerged from their shops, of course. But nothing like this. 

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at October 15, 2019 11:06 PM EDT
    • October 16, 2019 12:51 AM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
      • Posts
        5,436
      • Thanks
        1,977
      • Thanked
        1,368

      Yeah but ...

      OK I'm thinking broader terms and you are CP/ V&T specific.

       

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • October 19, 2019 3:42 PM EDT
      • Missouri, It's like Floodsburg, man
         
      • Posts
        2,834
      • Thanks
        350
      • Thanked
        375

      Inyo and Dayton are some handsome horses.
      Looks like it was quite the wonderland for a V&T fan.

    • October 19, 2019 8:14 PM EDT

      •  
      • Posts
        14,843
      • Thanks
        2,798
      • Thanked
        1,641

      Bump

    • October 19, 2019 8:35 PM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      Forrest Scott Wood said:

      Inyo and Dayton are some handsome horses.
      Looks like it was quite the wonderland for a V&T fan.

       

      You bet, Forrest, they are, and it is. And I suppose that many RR's have their own wonderland stashes and caches, sometimes in nice museums, sometimes in smaller collections. The V&T is blessed with this small museum, and a group of seriously knowledgeable museum people who make themselves very available, and who encourage further research. I feel truly fortunate. 

       

       

    • October 19, 2019 9:22 PM EDT
      • Missouri, It's like Floodsburg, man
         
      • Posts
        2,834
      • Thanks
        350
      • Thanked
        375

      Cliff Jennings said:

       

      My next objective was to hopefully learn about the reconstruction of the V&T locomotive transfer car. This was a super heavy duty (for its day) flat car, and Wendell gave a big talk about it at the conference. Here's Wendell, next to some of its truck parts. 

       

      This just in to the active memory, am pretty sure Wendell was the one who went by user name of Woodburner in the old Early Rail Yahoo group.

    • October 21, 2019 1:35 AM EDT
      • Maryland, USA
         
      • Posts
        2,368
      • Thanks
        1,751
      • Thanked
        1,377

      I don't know about that Yahoo group Forrest, but I do know that Wendell is one of those guys who'll pick up the phone and chat with you on whatever railroad thing he might help you with. Like, NV RR's, V&T and CP big time, probably all kinds of California stuff as well. Just a down-to-earth great guy.

       

      Some former curators of CSRM are similarly knowledgeable, especially Mike Collins and Stephen Drew. Somewhere along the way, they realized they're the last remaining V&T experts, carrying the torch for those that have passed on. And they've written gobs of V&T booklets and even books. But they're not proud or lofty either, just great guys who've decided to remain accessible.

       

      For anyone interested in a particular railroad, I'll bet there are people like that who just want to share, and pass on the legacy. 

       

      And for anyone not interested in a particular railroad, I'd recommend digging into one. The benefits are huge! You can start examining their maps and photos and history with online materials, start collecting some kind of artifact (stocks, buttons, spikes, plates, logos, uniforms, lamps, you name it), and thereafter grant all your family a standing birthday and Christmas list without having to say anything. Then comes the visits, like conventions, excursions, banquets, volunteer projects, fund raisers, shared research... who knows.  And one or two models on your layout become the icing on the history cake! 

       

      Ooops... I'm oversharing, but Forrest triggered it...  

       

      And this is the last night of my annual trip. Tomorrow (Monday) is flying back, and the next day (Tuesday) is back to work. Hard to let it all go! But I guess the reason I get preachy-weird in times like this is because I hope the relationships and history-chase will travel with me and remain in play; and talking about it helps cement that thought in place. 

       

      Thanks all for travelling with me through this,

      ===>Cliffy

       

       

       

      This post was edited by Cliff Jennings at October 22, 2019 6:19 AM EDT
Forums General Prototypes

    Icon Legend

  • Topic has replies
    Hot topic
    Topic unread
    Topic doesn't have any replies
    Closed topic
    BBCode  is enabled
    HTML  is enabled

Add Reputation

Do you want to add reputation for this user by this post?

or cancel

Ads by Google