I posted these photos on another large scale forum but thought I’d also share them here, too. I’ve hired a masonry contractor to build the support base for my garden railway due to my sloping backyard. The third day was completed today and one more to go. Here’s the photo chronology of the work:

1. Photo #1: The layout design.

2. Day One progress. Photo #2, 3, 4.

3. Day Two Progress. Photo #5 - 10.

4. Day Three Progress. Photo #11 - 14.

Comments: My contractor originally estimated 2 1/2 dump truck loads of dirt to fill in the retaining wall to be level. It required FOUR - costing me $350 per load. To get around two large trees and their roots, I’m using two double LGB truss bridges which are four feet length each, so for the two main lines around the perimeter of the new RR will require four LGB bridges per bridge (eight total for traversing the two trees)…but it will actually add character to the layout. There will be 3 inches of crushed stone #9 on top of the dirt within the retaining wall. Bill, my contractor’s tractor operator…he moved the four dump truck loads of dirt into the retaining wall and then the crushed stone #9.

5. Day Four: The contractor will finish the work next Monday and then my work begins laying track…I’m using AML brass flex track. First task, install and test the outer loop of the double mainline.

Nice start, Tom. Looks like a lot of work, but it seems you are doing it correctly. Keep the updates coming. Thanks for sharing your progress.

track power? clamps?

As stated, Nice work & construction… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Be interesting to watch it all grow together…

Looking good Tom. Keep the updates coming.

Greg Elmassian said:

track power? clamps?

Greg - The two mainline loops are 300 feet, 150 feet each. But eventually I’ll install a railyard on the large retaining wall area with lots of sidings and switches…can put consists together, etc. Power: Massoth Central Station with adjustable 12 amp max, and Massoth 12 amp Power Supply. Clamps: Split Jaw and AML. Track: AML six foot flex track. Rail Bender: Massoth. Switches: LGB using Massoth Switch Decoders.

What two lead wire would you suggest? Someone on one of the large scale forums used standard household lamp wire which is readiy available and inexpensive.

Tom

Sorry - duplicate posting

GROUND/SLOPE OF RAILWAY
My contractor’s mason has done an amazing job of extending the track line from the left side of the new retaining wall area, i.e., building the two raised block structures that will house the two 8 foot bridges. I bought at Home Depot yesterday a $60 24 inch Husky digital level and measured the level of those two structures and they are “0” grade! I want to keep the slope to 2% max from that point going up to my patio area…same from the right side of the retaining wall area. See both photos. So, on Tuesday when they return for the final work, I’m going to have them take out more dirt to get the slope down to 2%. It currently measures about 5%.

Tom, I use the full potential of my DCC system, and have also found out some very interesting things about the absolute track voltage.

Short tidbit: my Aristo E8 locos would only go 62 scale miles per hour on 20-21 v DCC… at 24v they will go 92. Speed is a nonlinear relationship to voltage, all the speed comes at the upper end of voltage.

Since I run 1:29 standard gauge, long trains, 3.4% max grade and stainless, I went 10 gauge wire. I have conduit for the track wiring, so I was able to save a lot of money by using household wire with much thinner insulation as opposed to the commonly-recommended landscape wiring.

I also have pretty strong opinions about trying to use solid wire as opposed to stranded, stranded corrodes more easily.

Now take it into account that I wand ZERO maintenance (and my track wiring has only had one connection repaired in 10 years)… saving a buck now vs. having 10 yrs of good times was an easy question to answer for me.

So depending on your grades, and the number of locos on the track at one time, I would not go below 12 gauge, although you have not indicated your proposed frequency of feeders or distance to power supply. I located a weatherproof box in the center of my layout to minimize wiring runs, but some are 40 foot.

Best, Greg

Greg Elmassian said:

Tom, I use the full potential of my DCC system, and have also found out some very interesting things about the absolute track voltage.

Short tidbit: my Aristo E8 locos would only go 62 scale miles per hour on 20-21 v DCC… at 24v they will go 92. Speed is a nonlinear relationship to voltage, all the speed comes at the upper end of voltage.

Since I run 1:29 standard gauge, long trains, 3.4% max grade and stainless, I went 10 gauge wire. I have conduit for the track wiring, so I was able to save a lot of money by using household wire with much thinner insulation as opposed to the commonly-recommended landscape wiring.

I also have pretty strong opinions about trying to use solid wire as opposed to stranded, stranded corrodes more easily.

Now take it into account that I wand ZERO maintenance (and my track wiring has only had one connection repaired in 10 years)… saving a buck now vs. having 10 yrs of good times was an easy question to answer for me.

So depending on your grades, and the number of locos on the track at one time, I would not go below 12 gauge, although you have not indicated your proposed frequency of feeders or distance to power supply. I located a weatherproof box in the center of my layout to minimize wiring runs, but some are 40 foot.

Best, Greg

Thanks for your input on wire…very helpful. I’m not going to use conduit to run the wires. Initially I’ll have two loops of track, 150 each loop. I’ll probably only run two connections, one set near the Central Station and one to the far corner about 30 - 40 feet distance. All the switches will be activated through the track, so no wires needed for them. I’ll also run one set of AC wires to future rail yard to be set up on the retaining wall for building lights.

Tom

Then, if you treat where the insulation stripped with liquid rubber (after tinning the ends so moisture cannot wick inside) 10 or 12 gauge landscape wire would probably be best for you.

Again, doing it right the first time is important, so with your 12 amp capacity, I would go 10 gauge…

Greg

I over-killed my power. I used the larger landscape wire for my buss wire, and the smaller wire to connect the bus wire to the track. I believe its 12 and 14 gauge wire that I used, but that was so long ago. I used 5 foot sections of stainless track that I bent to shape, and connected each one to the bus with feeders. I built my railroad in 2002, and have yet to have any serious power losses anywhere on the railroad. The only sections of track that rely on the clamps for power are the switches and the lift out bridge track. Since these items need to be lifted out from time to time, I didn’t connect feeder wires to them.

The connections are with wire nuts coated in RTV, as are the ring terminals that connect to the track. As I replace he Aristo rail joiners with clamps, I and securing the ring terminals to one of the clamp screws. Originally I was using Hillman’s clams, but now I am using split jaw clamps.

Going back to what has been said, I wanted to get the track-work right, and as close to bullet proof as possible, because track is the foundation of the railroad. Good track-work will be a joy for the life of the railroad. Bad track-work will be a frustration for the (short) life of the railroad.

A reminder, Split Jaw is closing it’s doors this year, so if you want their clamps, buy now, I’m buying another 100 or so before they close, as soon as Robby gets back from vacation.

I did run 10 gauge stranded in a star pattern to all feeds, nothing has failed but wish I had run solid as I have got some moisture wicking into the jacket. The stranded was easier to pull through the conduit, but I have nice sweeps so really could have used solid.

10 years of operating and no wires replaced, maybe one or two clamp per year needs cleaning/tightening. 850 feet of sectional track, that’s a lot of joints.

Greg

Greg - I already posted this reply on the G Scale Central Forum that you and I also belong to, but I’m also posting it here too for the Large Scale Central Forum folks: A boater friend and customer of mine recommended using marine grade tinned duplex cable available in various sizes including 10 and 12 AWG. The strands are tinned to withstand water corrosion. The brand he uses for his boats is Ancor Marine Grade Tinned Duplex Cable. It’s available online from WalMart and other dealers in 50, 100, 250 and 500 foot lengths. The online price at WalMart for the 100 foot 10 AWG is $95. This appears to be much better than the landscape wire for years of reliable garden railway use.

Thomas White said:

GROUND/SLOPE OF RAILWAY
My contractor’s mason has done an amazing job of extending the track line from the left side of the new retaining wall area, i.e., building the two raised block structures that will house the two 8 foot bridges. I bought at Home Depot yesterday a $60 24 inch Husky digital level and measured the level of those two structures and they are “0” grade! I want to keep the slope to 2% max from that point going up to my patio area…same from the right side of the retaining wall area. See both photos. So, on Tuesday when they return for the final work, I’m going to have them take out more dirt to get the slope down to 2%. It currently measures about 5%.

Day 4 - Final Day of Contractor’s Work - Morning Start

Day Four - Final Day of Contractor’s Work started this morning. I’m having them lower the base by the patio and going down each side to be about 2% slope or less on the grade. I’ll post additional photos at the end of their work today. Using the #9 gravel on top of the base also allows for adjusting the slope when the track is layed.

Gee it must be nice to point and ask and it gets done …… Looking good there Tom

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Gee it must be nice to point and ask and it gets done …… Looking good there Tom

Sean - Yes, it is nice to give the directions and the contractor responds…but that comes with a price especially in this high cost Washington DC Metropolitan Area!

Tom, I often shop in marine supply stores, since they are all about resisting corrosion and salt air and I live a mile away from the ocean, good stuff. I’ve found a lot of different products that have great applications to our hobby.

The standard landscaping cable is designed to have a thicker insulation so as to resist being cut when digging and roots wrapping around it, etc. The marine cable, while it looks nice (and the tinning is good too), is not quite as resistant to cutting, digging up, etc. It’s not really designed to be buried in dirt. That’s why most people recommend the thicker jacketed landscape wire for direct burial.

Of course it’s your layout, and of course YOU know that there are wires buried there ha ha! In your case, since it seems you are only burying a couple of wires, probably anything will do!

Also, I want to re-emphasize my cautions when using stranded wire, be sure to tin the ends and then waterproof. The marine cables tend to be more flexible and this is by virtue of the thinner and more supple insulation, but more importantly to you, finer strands of copper. I have found the finer strands, when exposed to moisture and acidic or alkaline soil just basically dissolve.

I use the coarser stranded 10 gauge wire you use in home wiring, and the strands are much more resistant to corrosion, and ultimately I will change out for solid wire, more hassle to run but much more resistant to moisture incursion.

I’ve studied and observed this over about 20 years, so my conclusions do line up with experience.

Best, Greg

Greg Elmassian said:

Tom, I often shop in marine supply stores, since they are all about resisting corrosion and salt air and I live a mile away from the ocean, good stuff. I’ve found a lot of different products that have great applications to our hobby.

The standard landscaping cable is designed to have a thicker insulation so as to resist being cut when digging and roots wrapping around it, etc. The marine cable, while it looks nice (and the tinning is good too), is not quite as resistant to cutting, digging up, etc. It’s not really designed to be buried in dirt. That’s why most people recommend the thicker jacketed landscape wire for direct burial.

Of course it’s your layout, and of course YOU know that there are wires buried there ha ha! In your case, since it seems you are only burying a couple of wires, probably anything will do!

Also, I want to re-emphasize my cautions when using stranded wire, be sure to tin the ends and then waterproof. The marine cables tend to be more flexible and this is by virtue of the thinner and more supple insulation, but more importantly to you, finer strands of copper. I have found the finer strands, when exposed to moisture and acidic or alkaline soil just basically dissolve.

I use the coarser stranded 10 gauge wire you use in home wiring, and the strands are much more resistant to corrosion, and ultimately I will change out for solid wire, more hassle to run but much more resistant to moisture incursion.

I’ve studied and observed this over about 20 years, so my conclusions do line up with experience.

Best, Greg

Greg - Excellent points and your experience is very useful…thanks for sharing!

Thomas White said:

Greg Elmassian said:

Tom, I often shop in marine supply stores, since they are all about resisting corrosion and salt air and I live a mile away from the ocean, good stuff. I’ve found a lot of different products that have great applications to our hobby.

The standard landscaping cable is designed to have a thicker insulation so as to resist being cut when digging and roots wrapping around it, etc. The marine cable, while it looks nice (and the tinning is good too), is not quite as resistant to cutting, digging up, etc. It’s not really designed to be buried in dirt. That’s why most people recommend the thicker jacketed landscape wire for direct burial.

Of course it’s your layout, and of course YOU know that there are wires buried there ha ha! In your case, since it seems you are only burying a couple of wires, probably anything will do!

Also, I want to re-emphasize my cautions when using stranded wire, be sure to tin the ends and then waterproof. The marine cables tend to be more flexible and this is by virtue of the thinner and more supple insulation, but more importantly to you, finer strands of copper. I have found the finer strands, when exposed to moisture and acidic or alkaline soil just basically dissolve.

I use the coarser stranded 10 gauge wire you use in home wiring, and the strands are much more resistant to corrosion, and ultimately I will change out for solid wire, more hassle to run but much more resistant to moisture incursion.

I’ve studied and observed this over about 20 years, so my conclusions do line up with experience.

Best, Greg

Greg - Excellent points and your experience is very useful…thanks for sharing!

OK Tom

When you are done quoting , hit the enter button and your line will start … go up to the box and hit the button ( this disables the quote)… then start typing …

Does this make sense… that way you not included in the quote…