I received a present in the mail from our Benevolent Dictator. 5 switches in need of tie replacement. He gave me a complete set of replacement ties for one of them. So I have a nice pattern to work from.
My question is what are my options for DYI ties. I know cedar and redwood and I have plenty of both of those. I also have some trex decking I think. I also have white PVC board scraps. Wondering what would be the best replacement tie.
Devon, I built a switch using ceder ties, treated with a wood preservative. That switch lasted many years in service. But, eventually, wood will rot.
Trex, at least the stuff I worked with, was a bit greasy, and would compress if I overtightend the screws. Its worked well for my bridge abutments, but they are larger timbers that track ties. Also ripping Trex into dimensional lumber killed my Proxxon saw, the trex melted and the solidified between the carbide blade and the lower blade cover.
So, personally, the PVC would be my choice.
Cedar, or redwood. Its hard to keep the spikes in plastic.
Build your ties, then build the turnout. I use a mix of ebony stain and boiled linseed oil for stain, about 50/50
The switches are built. It just a matter of one by one going through and taking off the old ties and putting on the new. They are all very loose so need to gauge them all but don’t really need to be built.
I am stuck between the forever of plastic and the ease of wood. I have nailed the PVC down with track spikes for the grade crossings in my walkway. That wasn’t hard to do at all. Pretty soft plastic really. I also like the looks. But my concern is its time-testedness, Am I thinking it will last and really won’t? And nothing looks as good as wood than wood. So I really am torn on this one
I just read your post again Steve. Keeping them in plastic not putting in plastic. OK I have read on this. Wonder what others thoughts on this are. Rusted spike in wood I have heard has great holding power.
Take it or leave it but I have learned through the years of hand spiking rail to wood ties, especially at switches, nothing works as well as a brass brad with a hole drilled through the rail foot and clenched over on the underside. On switches I use this method on every other tie and use regular spikes at all other places.
Takes a little more time to build but they last. Even if your spikes back out the rail stays in position and solid.
Rick do you just put one brad per tie on each side? I guess what I am getting at is the switches I got from Bob have four spikes per rail on each side of the tie and no tie plates. And the Llagas switches of course use prefab tie strips with tie plates and what seems to be a random number of spikes.
I was thinking of trying to do my best to make them look like the llagas switches by buying tie plates and spiking them in the same fashion to whatever tie I use. Now I see where your going with this. The brad being bent over will lock it down. I am wondering if one brad per side on every other tie would do the trick so that it more or less matches.
Mind you matching is not critical. I am sure I am the only one that will notice.
Devon, if you are after forever switches, might I suggest Ultra High Molecular Density Polyethylene ? It’s what I used for my switches, and so far they have held up very well. (2 winters out side) A link to my build log is below,see pages 3&4 for the main bit about switch building. A lot of the same concerns that are being voiced here were also raised on my log. Because I was building forever switches I used stainless spikes and I have not had a problem with them rising up. I think this is for two reasons. A: I pre-drilled all the holes for them about 80% the diameter of the spike, and they still take a lot of effort to push through. The spikes I use have 3 rings around the tops and I can feel each one hit the tie as the spike is driven in. The UHMDPE is very tough and holds tight. B: my spikes just poke out of the bottoms of the ties. This means that the point is out and can not be pushed on by expanding and contracting ties. It cost me $350 for a 10’ x 4’ x .375" sheet (with uv stabilizer) which I figure is enough for 50 # 7 switches. That’s $7 a switch. My two cents…
Build log:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/23502/ebt-robertsdale-layout-build-log?page=3
Randy thanks for the link. That stuff is spendy but like you state for the amount used it isn’t bad per switch. Ebay has smaller pieces. This may be a consideration. How did you cut it?
My experience using trex as ties has been all good. I have had absolutely no spike pop ups in over 3 years since I did my first test section. I am using stainless steel spikes and I predrill the spike holes. I make my ties 1/2" x 3/4" so I only need to rip in one dimension. I started using stainless steel spikes when I made ties from PT wood and the treating chemicals would dissolve steel spikes in short order. That said experience is the best judge, what works for one doesn’t always work for others.
Cedar ties… Yes the wood will need replacing but is there any layout that doesn’t need routine mantaince? Cedar is cheap if you buy fencing. Pick through the stack to find clear fencing and start ripping on the table saw. I had cedar ties outside for about 8 years with my first layout and when I pulled the track up I would say 20 to 30% of the ties were unsaveable. The rest were still good.
Well the one thing to consider for me will be the location of these switches. They will be up on my bench which will have excellent drainage and the ties be laid on PVC boards and buried in ballast. They won’t be sitting in damp earth. So I should get longevity out of cedar and redwood. and I have all of it I need.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I will make one with the provided ties, I might make one on PVC scraps I already have, and make the rest in redwood or cedar. Good test bed.
Devon Sinsley said:
Randy thanks for the link. That stuff is spendy but like you state for the amount used it isn’t bad per switch. Ebay has smaller pieces. This may be a consideration. How did you cut it?
Looks like you already made you mind up (as much as a Devon does) but I’ll answer your question any way. It cuts with normal wood tools, very nicely I might add. Table saw to rip it in to tie size cross sections, and chop saw for length. I didn’t even use a fine tooth blade just the normal blades I had in. Drills just fine too. Now the question is do you spend time building the road bed, or spent time rebuilding switches? Only so many hours in the day. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
My mind is nowhere near made up. Even though I say wood, its because I have it on hand. I still like the idea of plastic better. I would just have to purchase the plastic and I have a lot still to purchase and as you state only so much time to get it all done. I will likely use what I have on hand for now.
But I have other switches that will need to be made. So I have not ruled out your idea. I might try several things so I can see what works best for me.
So I am listening Randy and still very interested.
Devon Sinsley said:
My mind is nowhere near made up.
Is it ever? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
Well…
Steve Featherkile said:
Devon Sinsley said:
My mind is nowhere near made up.
Is it ever? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)
Nope, where would the fun in that be.
I will guarantee you one thing, if you use Trex or PVC you will be rebuilding these switches again next year after the snow, freeze, and thaw has gone. Even if you place these switches on lattice. It’s the main reason I removed all of my Switch Crafter switches off my layout and use them in doors. The two Aristo Craft switches that I have rebuilt on wooden ties have been outside for several years with no problems.
You need to remember that we live in North Idaho where the weather goes from 95 degrees in the summer to the low teens during the winter. After all you’ve lived here all your life. I personally use Redwood for all my bridges and the switches I mentioned earlier.
Chuck Inlow said:
I will guarantee you one thing, if you use Trex or PVC you will be rebuilding these switches again next year after the snow, freeze, and thaw has gone. Even if you place these switches on lattice. It’s the main reason I removed all of my Switch Crafter switches off my layout and use them in doors. The two Aristo Craft switches that I have rebuilt on wooden ties have been outside for several years with no problems.
You need to remember that we live in North Idaho where the weather goes from 95 degrees in the summer to the low teens during the winter. After all you’ve lived here all your life. I personally use Redwood for all my bridges and the switches I mentioned earlier.
Well since both you and Steve have said use redwood and I have redwood, I will use redwood. While I respect everyone’s advice I have to go with the guys in my area, who see my conditions. Also, since Steve and Chuck will both likely run on this layout I don’t want to hear I told you so. So if I do it their way, and they go sour I can just blame it on them in person(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
And Chuck, I know you love your redwood and for good reason. I am following your lead.
Like Chuck, I’ve had turnouts with synthetic ties fail. I’ve not had that problems with either redwood or cedar.
The synthetic ties probably work well in milder climates, but here in the frosty North, with multiple freeze/thaw cycles each year, they don’t work so well.
Why yes Devon, I do like redwood, actually I think my dog likes it better. In fact I have been cutting a bunch of redwood today. That way I can finish siding the new barn that I made for my wife and for the new trestle that will replace a Warren Truss bridge that didn’t fare so well with all the snow this year. I actually made the template for the trestle today, so now I just need to go get another piece of redwood from Home Depot and get it cut for the lattice base frame.
And just form your information, Steve and I will never let you blame use for anything. LOL
