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  • Topic: Put the rummers to rest.

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    • August 22, 2013 12:09 PM EDT
      • Cumming, GA
         
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      Reading all the reply s reminds me of when I first went to work for the RR and all the old guys would set around at lunch time and just think of ways to trash where they work and what they even bought then.  Just to many folks here having way to much time on there hands to come up with all the suppositions.   Later RJD

    • August 22, 2013 12:14 PM EDT
      • Deer Park, Washington
         
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      When I was in the Navy, it was often said that a bitchin' sailor was a happy sailor.  I suppose that the same applies here.

      ____________________________________

      What a week.  After getting through Monday and Tuesday, I'm still looking at WTF.

       

      "It has long been my belief that the sight of a good-looking woman lowers a man's IQ by at least 20 points. A man who doesn't happen to have 20 points he can spare can be in big trouble."  Thomas Sowell

    • August 22, 2013 12:16 PM EDT

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      Mark V said:


      Seems to me many consumers are quite happy with Aristo but tire of the vultures hounding them.  I have very little Aristo, but what I have has been trouble free.  Same said for Bachmann.  Cannot say the same for the "golden child" USA but I don't hound the company on the forums either (one issue with one NIB loco needing a new motor block).

      I readily see the issues but come here looking for advise or fixes, not a continual series of threads that do nothing but whine.  There are those who 'drink the koolaid and those who poison it.

      Un be lieveable.
      Where, exactly, for the record, are consumers being hounded by vultures?
      You've got a very strange vantage point.

      Chuckie doesn't hold "interviews" with employees, published on company websites, after years of denying any problems exist.

      If you haven't had any issues...well, just wait.

      Oh, well......

      TOC

    • August 22, 2013 12:19 PM EDT
      • Warwick, RI
         
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      I am just here because I enjoy trains, but some of you take this stuff way to serious.

    • August 22, 2013 12:31 PM EDT

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      Vincent D'Agostino said:

      I am just here because I enjoy trains, but some of you take this stuff way to serious.

      Yeah, I know. Here some of us have been concerned about quality control (or lack thereof), adherence to prototype, properly wired electronics, properly gauged wheelsets, wheel plating that doesn't have dandruff, gears that don't split...you know, the average concerns some modelers can't figure out how to fix on their own.
      Concerned enough to say something....and get yelled at by the "experts" who, by gum, know more than anybody else, even though they've only had the loco for two weeks....and in that concern, be willing to take these manufacturers on to improve the quality, usability, consistency....

      Too seriously?

      Maybe.

      Maybe none of us should give a sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. If no one had in the last 20 years, exactly what do you think you would have now?

      Floor pull toys.

      Idiots who blindly follow what the manufacturer says without having the ability to think on their own.....we watch this stuff and it sure looks like: "You do not have to think for yourselves. We will think for you. Just repeat what we tell you. All is well....."

      In the meantime, manufacturers call messengers names on company websites, the "faithful" repeat those things on public websites..someday folks will figure out how blindly stupid they have been......

      TOC

    • August 22, 2013 12:38 PM EDT

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      Curmudgeon mcneely said:
      Vincent D'Agostino said:

      I am just here because I enjoy trains, but some of you take this stuff way to serious.

      Yeah, I know. Here some of us have been concerned about quality control (or lack thereof), adherence to prototype, properly wired electronics, properly gauged wheelsets, wheel plating that doesn't have dandruff, gears that don't split...you know, the average concerns some modelers can't figure out how to fix on their own.
      Concerned enough to say something....and get yelled at by the "experts" who, by gum, know more than anybody else, even though they've only had the loco for two weeks....and in that concern, be willing to take these manufacturers on to improve the quality, usability, consistency....

      Too seriously?

      Maybe.

      Maybe none of us should give a sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. If no one had in the last 20 years, exactly what do you think you would have now?

      Floor pull toys.

      Idiots who blindly follow what the manufacturer says without having the ability to think on their own.....we watch this stuff and it sure looks like: "You do not have to think for yourselves. We will think for you. Just repeat what we tell you. All is well....."

      In the meantime, manufacturers call messengers names on company websites, the "faithful" repeat those things on public websites..someday folks will figure out how blindly stupid they have been......

      TOC

      WOW......I couldn't have summed it up better my self.......  Bravo............

       

    • August 22, 2013 1:00 PM EDT
      • Coldstream, British Columbia, Canada
         
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      And just when one takes a deep breath ..... here comes the sour Mr. Sauer.  

       

      Aaaaahhhhhh ... just exhaling, that's all.

      :)

       

      BTW on mfgs participation on independent sites, that's not really a surprise. They basically get sorted in two major groups

      a) those who have their own forum - some of them with peculiar rules e.g. "if it isn't ours don't even mention it".

      b) those who don't have a forum, don't need a forum and whose product is generally well accepted i.e. they don't need a propaganda machine and/or a fire brigade.

       

      Apart from that, not having them on the forum precludes any need to be pussy-footing and pandering - there are enough fora that I know of where the pussy-footing is part of the daily diet.

      ____________________________________

      Cheers

      HJ
      ---

      Coldstream, BC  Canada


      Inspire­d by the r­eal world

       

      English language hobby website 

      highly RhB centric, but most of it can be applied to other railway projects

    • August 22, 2013 1:25 PM EDT
      • Smoggy L.A., Left Coast
         
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      Curmudgeon mcneely said:
      ..someday folks will figure out how blindly stupid they have been......


      TOC

       

       


      Woe upon those who did not learn their lessons from "next week"

       


       

      This post was edited by Vic Smith at August 22, 2013 1:30 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

       DON'T PANIC!

    • August 22, 2013 1:35 PM EDT

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      Greg Elmassian said:

      Mark V.... calling people out on denying the truth is not bashing.

       

      Aristo has denied almost every major issue they have had. If you don't know this, then either you woke up yesterday, or you cannot read.

       

      If you need help finding the posts on the Aristo forum where Lewis denies any problems with slipping drivers, miswiring, wheel plating, I''ll be happy to give you the links.

       

      This age old twisting of words, taking anything not complimentary to be "bashing" just does not wash.

       

      Do you actually own any Aristo products, and if so can you honestly say you have NEVER seen any of these issues so vehemently denied?

       

      Greg

       


      I thought this topic was the rumors of AC going out of business. Those other things are separate issues. 

       

      And why does anyone care what "story" AC gives about it? Either they'll stay in business, or they'll fold, just like any other business. (And I don't see any hobby manufacturers thriving in this crappy economy.) Why the need for all this mudslinging and speculation? 

       



    • August 22, 2013 1:38 PM EDT
      • West Grove, Pennsylvania
         
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      Ray Dunakin said:
      Why the need for all this mudslinging and speculation? 

       



      It gives people sumthin to do........;)

      ____________________________________

      "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --Martin Luther King Jr

    • August 22, 2013 1:57 PM EDT
      • Smoggy L.A., Left Coast
         
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      Ray Dunakin said:
      Greg Elmassian said:

      Mark V.... calling people out on denying the truth is not bashing.

       

      Aristo has denied almost every major issue they have had. If you don't know this, then either you woke up yesterday, or you cannot read.

       

      If you need help finding the posts on the Aristo forum where Lewis denies any problems with slipping drivers, miswiring, wheel plating, I''ll be happy to give you the links.

       

      This age old twisting of words, taking anything not complimentary to be "bashing" just does not wash.

       

      Do you actually own any Aristo products, and if so can you honestly say you have NEVER seen any of these issues so vehemently denied?

       

      Greg

       


      I thought this topic was the rumors of AC going out of business. Those other things are separate issues. 

       

      And why does anyone care what "story" AC gives about it? Either they'll stay in business, or they'll fold, just like any other business. (And I don't see any hobby manufacturers thriving in this crappy economy.) Why the need for all this mudslinging and speculation? 

       



      Ray, part of the concern is for the very FUTURE of the hobby, when EPL crashed and then took 3 full years to re-enter the market , no one at the time realized what a negative impact that timespan could have on the scale, the loss of LGB as a brand had a profoundly negative effect on the scale in general, even with Bmann USA AC and even Piko trying to fill the gap, the Great Recession, the China huge price increases, the loss of track for a long spell and the seemingly never ending QC issues with Bmann and AC gave the perception that all was not well in the LS universe, that alone spooked quite alot of potential newbies to take up fishing instead. 

       

      Even now Marklin/LGB is nowhere anywhere near the presence it was before the crash, high prices are still scaring away a great many more people than you might realize, and now we have AC treading water and its very very easy to see why alot of us are very pessimistic about where our chosen gauge may be heading. 


      I dunno, its truly a sad time in general when GR can't find advertisers like it could just 5 years ago,  If, and only an IF, AC does sell out or go under its safe to assume it could be, like EPL, 2-3 years before we see any new stock imported by a new owner. Hopefully they will find a way around all this but its clear to anyone whos been paying attention that their current business model simply does not appear to be working.


      This post was edited by Vic Smith at August 22, 2013 4:58 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

       DON'T PANIC!

    • August 22, 2013 2:08 PM EDT

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      Ray Dunakin said:


      I thought this topic was the rumors of AC going out of business. Those other things are separate issues. 

       

      And why does anyone care what "story" AC gives about it? Either they'll stay in business, or they'll fold, just like any other business. (And I don't see any hobby manufacturers thriving in this crappy economy.) Why the need for all this mudslinging and speculation? 

       



      Ah. Divide and conquer, eh? So...the question really revolved (of late) around the "interview", right? And how "all is well", the "west cost whatevers" are causing problems. So, the history of the fallacies of PolkSpeak over the decades is brought in to use to view the latest "interview".....who is mudslinging?

      Why don't you just come out and tell everyone that you believe the Words from the head Polk, you have mastered the Polk-a Dance, don't anyone dare make your head hurt by pointing out the.....absolutely OBVIOUS.

      Just like with the EPL debacle.....the position of the blinders becomes extremely obvious withing a few posts.

      Again, Ray....who is mudslinging?

      The only mudslinging I have seen in all of this is contained in the "interview".

      TOC

    • August 22, 2013 4:18 PM EDT

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      Unfortunately, the data indicating Aristo-Craft's financial problems supported by specifics on this site is challenged as not coinciding with the explanations given by Aristo-Craft management.
      Question: Would those same specifics and conclusions have been acknowledged in the first place if the company had a history of trusted communications with these same observers? 
      I doubt it.
      Often, its not the specifics -- its the spin given for their explanation that is the engine for reporting. 
      Notice the reporting comparisons when trusted-history large scale RR businesses are announced on this site as having financial difficulty, cut backs, relocations, changes in inventory and product line changes so obvious of declining sales. 
      Ridge Road comes to mind. So do others. Some small home-based some large. All achieved a history of trust reflected in the concerns and messages posted and read on this site.    
      So the problem of trust again appears in our writing. Large Scale Central may be the only "consumer reports" we have in the large scale industry.
      Protect it.
      Wendell     
               

    • August 22, 2013 4:21 PM EDT

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      The good news is Bachmann and USA Trains make track that works with Aristo so the world will not end either way.
    • August 22, 2013 4:27 PM EDT

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    • August 22, 2013 5:03 PM EDT

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      Just so we're perfectly clear here.
      Neither I nor anyone else I have read is wishing any ill towards AC or the Polk Folk.
      One posted has a website of his own showing the issues and how to fix said issues. Some have worked diligently with this manufacturer to get it right....and been banned from the Polk Forum for their efforts.
      Personally, and based upon chatter, I still do not think the brand is going away.
      The latest thread drift has been a discussion of the merits of the "interview" with regards to the available facts.
      I suppose folks who only read the Polk Forum and have blocked out all other input have a different view.
      That's why this is in the General Forum, regarding trains, and Garden Railroads.
      TOC

    • August 22, 2013 5:51 PM EDT

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      Cale Nelson said:

    • August 22, 2013 6:19 PM EDT
      • Tolland County, Ct.
         
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      :p

      ____________________________________

      RRR#2...........Linville Jct. RR

      RRR#2...........Linville Jct. RR

    • August 22, 2013 9:05 PM EDT

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      Will Polk hobbies go out of business. My best GUESS is no. Will Artistro Craft rolling stock and locomotives survive probably not. My best guess is that Bachmann will pick up the line as they have been sniffing around lately. Polk Hobbies will continue with  Crest, RMT and other lines. They will look much like LI, Phoenix etc. having only a nitche portion of the industry.

      One of the problems with Lewis' business model was that he did not reinvest the principle into new inventory. It is fair to take the profit , but the principle must be reinvested in replenishment stock. During the last few years Lewis paid the help and by his own admission at the 2011 ECLST took a large portion for retirement. This left dwindling monies for stock  replenishment. When Scott took over as president(NOT owner) he has been at the mercy of what is left allowing only for orders of $25-30,000. Not the $300-400,000 of the past.


      This became a major problem for the retailers. I will use Peter Mills as an example. As Kevin noted he had only two rooms about 2,500 sq ft devoted to retail sales. But upstairs and in Holley he had probably of 30,000sq ftof warehousing.  he had a huge mail order and eventually internet sales. Major problems cropped up with availability of critical supplies for his repair personnel (Another major flaw in Lewis' business plan- no money in small parts go for the big ticket items), no new cars with new road names, etc. According to Dave 80% of his business was AC. Orders to AC went way down as he had a warehouse full of slow moving inventory. This was all he could get from the AC warehouse. Sales of a newly introduced item are high, but the market becomes saturated and sales dwindle.


      When Lewis announced to the retailers, he was going direct, Peter sold his remaining inventory and went out of business.   He noted to me he could not have 2 million dollars tied up in inventory when he had to compete at same price as the manufacturer. Lantz has been fighting that for years.  They carry much LBG and Piko, but all AC is drop shipped.


      The question becomes one who's at fault, the consumer, retailer,  factory, QC at factory or a poor business plan?


      In defense. No one is bashing AC. We would all like them to succeed. The discussions are to bring issues to the fore front as learning experience for hobbiest thinking about going into business. and perhaps let the current manufacturers and retailers not fall into the same pit.  

    • August 22, 2013 9:42 PM EDT
      • Paraguay
         
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